(In)Fertility is Hard with Bryant Liggett, Co-Founder of The Fertility Resort

Jacqueline is joined by Bryant Liggett, the co-founder of The Fertility Resort, an international digital platform that empowers women with the tools and resources they need to tackle the ups and downs of the infertility journey. Bryant shares her own personal story and connects listeners with the resources they deserve at The Fertility Resort.

• Learn more about The Fertility Resort
•  Connect with The Fertility Resort on Instagram
•  Leave a review for the podcast
•  Join the Motherhood Intended Community
•  Follow @motherhood_intended on Instagram

Transcript

Hey, it's Jacqueline. Welcome back to the podcast. I hope everyone is having a great end to your summer. I know everyone's schedules are a little bit different, but we are winding down here. School for us starts in about eight days, so we've got a lot to do in the next week. I feel like I have so much to get prepared for the school year, especially with my oldest going off to kindergarten.

It's just like a whole new. Experience for us both. You know, I didn't think much of it until the last couple weeks, and now all of a sudden I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, do I have everything he needs? Am I signed up for all the right emails and do I have all his supplies? And I'm just, I don't know. I'm sure it's just my own anxiety about him growing up and going to school, for the next so many years.

That is, that is hitting hard this week.  We are sneaking in one last family vacation.  It's been planned for a while, but our whole family, extended family is getting together,  at a, a rental house, you know, in the area,  which is actually gonna be the weekend after the first day of school.

So,  still more fun to be had, but summer's definitely winding down.  And of course it's been a very exciting,  week or two in my world because of our embryo transfer with our gestational carrier.  You'll hear me use the term gestational carrier and surrogate kind of interchangeably.  It's all kind of the same thing, but,  traditional surrogacy is when you are working with a woman and using her eggs, so she is inseminated or using her egg and.

Donor sperm and carrying the baby. A gestational surrogate is one that is carrying, you know, our embryo. So it's our d n a. She is carrying the embryo. So if you hear me say gc, that stands for gestational carrier. If you hear me say surrogate, same thing. It's all the same. I don't know. Sometimes GC flows outta my mouth, sometimes surrogate does.

So just so you know, that's what I'm referring to. But it's been an exciting week because we've had our embryo transfer  but I don't wanna spend too much time on that today because I have an amazing guest in store for you. So,  There will be a bonus episode coming out soon where I will kind of break down our own personal experience so far with surrogacy and kind of where we're at.

But if you just can't wait for the results and you wanna stay up to date more in real time, be sure to follow me on Instagram at motherhood intended. That's where I usually share about my own life and about the podcast and everything happening as it's happening. So be sure to give me a follow on Instagram.

And before we dive in,  a quick reminder that if you haven't already, join us in the Motherhood Intended Community Group on Facebook. It's a great place to bounce ideas off of other moms. Get recommendations. I just started our own little micro conversation off of the group for anyone going through iis I V F, or anyone who has been through I V F already and who can offer up some support. So that's been a really great tool. There's a lot of awesome conversations going on in there. Women supporting each other in their cycles, keeping each other up to date, checking in on each other, giving doctor recommendations. Of course, none of it is medical advice.

It's just a support group, but it's been really awesome. So I'm gonna start doing some more of these breakout conversations through the community group on Facebook. There's a lot, lot to come in that group. Join us.

So today's guest is somebody I actually met through a college friend of mine years ago,  and I was so excited for our connection to come full circle recently so we could connect and be on the podcast together.

I'm going to be on her podcast. There are just so many things that align with her story and mine and the work we're trying to do in the world. So I am super excited to have her on the show today. Her name is Bryant Liggett, and she is a marketing professional and entrepreneur.

She holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in anthropology from the University of West Florida. With over a decade of experience in digital strategy, she has served clients in diverse industries, including food and beverage, beauty, healthcare, and media production. Beyond her professional achievements, Bryant is a passionate advocate for women's reproductive health as a long-term I V F patient.

She understands the challenges firsthand in 2022, she won the self-made annual pitch contest with her novel idea, the fertility resort. Teaming up with her friend and doctor Erin Attaway. They've created an international digital platform that empowers women with the tools and resources to tackle the ups and downs of the fertility journey.

Bryant's dedication to marketing excellence and her commitment to supporting women through the fertility resort exemplify her as a visionary leader and a catalyst for positive change. Take a listen as Bryant bravely shares her own personal fertility story and gives us an inside look at what the fertility resort is all about,.

Hi Bryant, welcome to the show. I am so excited to have you here today. We have a mutual friend and when she kind of put us in touch, I was like, absolutely. I need to hear about everything that you're doing in your life and all this amazing stuff you're putting out into the world. But for our listeners, I would love for you to just tell us a little bit about yourself.

How long have you and your husband been married? A little bit about your fertility journey, and we can kind of start from there. 

Sure. Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. I am definitely an avid listener of Motherhood Intended, and I very much appreciate the platform that you have created because this is hard.

Yeah. 

Just in general, like this is hard and so I a huge supporter of yours and I'm just so excited that we got to reconnect. I know we met like. 10 plus years ago. 

Yeah. 

When I used to live 

back our Prime 

Live with one of your college friends. Yeah. Oh, it's so crazy. The world is so small. It's um, Yeah, I'm just excited to be here.

So my husband, Sam and I, we've been married actually two and a half years, but we started trying for our family about five years ago,  scandalous, whatever you wanna call it. I have multiple sclerosis and I went through  a really, really difficult. Flare up about six years ago and fortunately I kind of went into a small remission after that and my doctor, my neurologist, was essentially like, if you want a family plan, you need to do it like right now because just of the way the medication works with multiple sclerosis, like it's very difficult to family plan while on medication.

You have to be washed for a certain amount of time. It's kind of a complicated. Endeavor, even though pregnancy in general is allegedly really good for multiple sclerosis patients.  But anyway, so we were like, okay, I guess we should try. And so we started trying about five years ago, got pregnant pretty quick,  and then miscarried at six and a half weeks.

And at that point it was like, You know, literally was just blindsided by it, kind of.  We both come from really large families. Okay. I'm one of nine kids and like a yours, mine an hour type situation. 

Yeah. 

Both my parents were married multiple times, lots of half siblings. Mm-hmm.  And then Sam is one of six.

So infertility was not something that like had ever crossed our minds as a possibility.  And I kind of thought that maybe we got pregnant too soon after stopping my MS meds. Like maybe it was something to do with that. I like blamed everything possible except for the fact that maybe I just am infertile, like literally blamed everything except for that.

Yeah. Well, of course we all, that's what we do. 

That's what we do. Yeah. So, after that, that was pretty devastating. That miscarriage happened on Christmas Eve of 2018, and so  we just decided to like put a pause in it for a second and just like recoup, I guess.  I don't know. I just felt really, I was really devastated by that because I was so blindsided by it.

Right. 

So we kind of put a pin in it and then six months later started trying again.  And then we ended up getting pregnant in January of 2020. And then we miscarried again. And at that point my OB was like, I. I still think it's a little too soon. This is just an accident. Chances are this is never gonna happen again.

You know all the things that your OB says to you, you know? Mm-hmm. And not in a bad way, just statistically, she's like, it's been two times now. It's not gonna happen again. Right? 

Yeah. 

So then we got pregnant again that July of 2020, and. That was like an excellent pregnancy,  up until I started bleeding at 12 weeks.

 Hit all of our milestones. Everything was going great. My OB was like, see, this is the one, like, you're totally fine. All your numbers look fabulous.  Everything's measuring perfectly. You know, it is what it is.  And then I was at work and I, you know, stood up and knew. I was like, oh no, something's wrong.

And you just know, you know? 

Yeah. Yeah. 

And so, Went to the hospital and um,  that was like a pretty traumatic experience. I don't think hospitals are necessarily prepared for miscarriage.  I think there's some flaws in that system of how they treat women who are going through like first trimester miscarriages or even second trimester.

I think like there's  a lot of disconnect there. So my doctor wasn't on call that day,  my ob but we were, in the same hospital that she works in, we went and the doctor was like, well, we, of course, there is no heartbeat. And  they were like, we can do a D N C right now, or we can send you home, but if you go home, just so you know, The rest of this process is not gonna be like a six or seven week miscarriage.

Like if you start vomiting, come back. And at the time I just didn't even, I just didn't know what I didn't know. 

Well, right. Yeah. 

Like, and I was, and I think I had like blacked out. I'm not even gonna lie. Like the whole thing. I can barely remember. 

Yeah. 

And so my husband took me home and then in the middle of the night, that night, I woke up, had to vomit, started vomiting in the bathroom, and then passed out on the bathroom floor.

So then he picked me up, put me in the car and drove me right back to the hospital, and I remember that part really  vividly. I was bleeding so badly and I remember being in the line trying to get to like check in and being in a wheelchair and like blood seeping out for me into the wheelchair and like being just incomplete.

Shock like that, that was happening. Sorry, this is getting really deep, really fast. I apologize. 

No, you know, you are in the right space right here. This is, this is the space where, because this is real,  this is your story and this is what happened. And  as you're telling it, I'm just already feeling like I know exactly what you're saying. I mean, and it's just like this out-of-body experience where you're like, you're there, but like completely, you're really not, it's like you're watching it kind of, but it's, it's, it's insane. 

1000% and like finally we get checked in and  we get to the front and I actually turn around and throw up on the side of  like off of my wheelchair.

Mm-hmm. And the lady was like, Okay, let me get you back there. 'cause she like recognized that something was wrong. 

Yeah. 

You know, 'cause they  they didn't know if I was like having an ectopic pregnancy or whatever. All my husband said is, we're pregnant and we're miscarrying. Like  the check-in lady didn't know.

Yeah. 

And so  they took us back and fortunately I had  the best on-call doctor of all time and he just held my hand and was like, listen, we have to get this out of you right now. Mm-hmm. So we're gonna do a D N C, you're gonna be awake. And that's just what has to happen. And. He was wonderful. He held my hand.

My husband sat there and held my hand while they did a D N C while I was awake in the middle of the er. And like that was it. And then finally,  during that time, my OB was actually on call that day, so I was able to talk to her. And again, she was like, This is just  this is just  like an accident.

This isn't like a thing you need to worry about. You're obviously getting pregnant, so you just gotta keep trying and that  Really stressed me out.  I did not think that that was appropriate, or I just didn't think that was the right answer to what was happening at the time. 

Yeah. 

And so  I called my mom, and my mom had, so both my parents were married like multiple times.

Okay. 

And my mom had, me and my little sister much older in age, she got pregnant with me No problem. She was 40, but when they decided to have one more baby,  my little sister, she was 45, so she actually did go to a reproductive endocrinologist to get some help with that. And, that is who my reproductive endocrinologist is now, which is like very sweet.

My little sister was one of his first babies that he ever had, so like that's pretty cool. 

What a full circle moment. 

But anyway, it really is. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's really awesome and I absolutely adore him. So I had my mom. Just tell me who I needed to call. She told me to call him, and I got in to an appointment.

 We had our D n c the end of October of 2020. And so we got in to see him in November,  and he was like, no, there's something definitely wrong. Like this shouldn't be happening.  And I guess like the thing with reproductive endocrinologists that's so interesting to me is that they're really good at getting people pregnant who have never been pregnant before.

Mm-hmm. But for people who have recurrent loss, I'm realizing it's still kind of a foreign subject for a lot of professionals in the industry. Or at least that's been my experience. The science is incredible. It does so much and I'm so fortunate to have that science, but . For people who just continuously lose babies, healthy babies.

Yeah. 

There still is very little research about it. 

Yes.  It's been my experience as well and how you were saying your ob still wasn't worried and like, oh, just try again.  It's a good thing you can get pregnant. I'm like, There's so much more to it though. Like, oh my gosh, like 

so much more 

pregnant, staying pregnant. Like there's, there's so many things that can  after my experience, and I'm sure you feel the same way. It's like amazing to me that babies are born every day. I'm just like, there are so miracle little things that can go not the right way.

It's like true miracle, I swear.  But you're right. I definitely think there's like a disconnect  I couldn't be any more grateful either,  for a reproductive endocrinologist and what they're able to do. That's why I have two sons. But in the same token, they really don't know.

 What to do with you when  you can't stay pregnant. It's, it's a whole nother ball game for sure. 

It really is. And I feel like I'm like the unicorn patient in every situation, you know? But when I went to see him, I felt really safe. I absolutely adore him. And,  his first like line of defense obviously  R P L panels,  everything came back. Pretty normal for the most part. I do. The only thing that he could find was that I had an arcuate shaped uterus, which is, I have like a really small septum right at the top, but it's so small that it's not even worth doing surgery on.  So that was like the main thing that was found. I also, I do have factor two, but I've known that for a really long time and I take a baby aspirin for it every day.

So that is just a clotting disorder.  The most common one for pregnancies is like factor five. Okay. Or the lupus anticoagulant, like I think that's the same thing. So I have factor two. So other than that, like very treatable things.  Even at the time, so now  two years, three years later, turns out I have a lot more wrong with me than what we initially thought. It took honestly i v F to diagnose me with a lot of things. 

Yeah. 

Like such a diagnostic tool that I don't think people really understand, how cool it really can be to learn more about your body that way. So anyway,  our first line of defense was he was like, let's do an i u i.

We know you can get pregnant. Let's just see what happens. So we did an i u I got pregnant. This was the first time I had ever been offered, and we miscarried at seven and a half weeks. There was a heartbeat, six weeks, everything measuring on time. Went in a week later. The heartbeat had slowed down. It had dropped to like under a hundred beats per minute, which is like obviously not a great sign.

Yeah. Um, and he was like, the baby was still measuring on time, but he was like, that's not great. Heartbeat should be much higher at this point because it was much higher the week before that. Then we went back, um, A couple of days later, I think it was like four or five days later for a checkup at the end of the week, and then there was no more heartbeat.

So at that point he was like, we're doing D N C and we're gonna test the fetus.  In retrospect, I'm so annoyed that they didn't offer me that in the hospital when I had my D N C with my third loss. Yeah. Like that really irks me that that wasn't even offered to me. But again, I just didn't know what I didn't know.

Like Yeah. And that's just what it was. 

And the worst part about not even knowing what you don't know, it's like not knowing what you don't know in that  intense vulnerable situation because you're already not yourself. And so you couldn't even like remotely begin to think of  what to even ask or, or anything. And ugh, the hindsight part is for sure is so frustrating, but that's, that's why you're doing what you do. And, and yeah, 

exactly.  It's just, there's so many emotions and you literally black out like yeah, like you said earlier, an out-of-body experience. That's literally what happens. and so  we did our D N C with that one and we did genetically test that one and that was actually Trisomy 13, which is not compatible with life.

So in a weird way, that gave me some relief a little bit. And you know, my doctor was like, okay, so we know you can get pregnant. We cannot rule out that these were all chromosomally abnormal babies.  Because  the only proof that we have of miscarriage so far is this one, right? That tells us what happened.

Right? So he was like, let's do I V F and let's genetically test,  your embryos. Like, because if that's what the solution is, then we can get you some normal embryos, right? Like, 

yeah, yeah. 

So we did our first round of I V F, which, um, Did not go like as great as it should have. I guess. Like they were really surprised because I have a pretty  high A M H, which turns out I have P C O S, but I didn't even get that diagnosis for an entire year later after that.

And so we did our first round of I V F and we only got one embryo, but it was oid, so that was great. And then, We decided instead of transferring, we'll just jump right into a second round. Because they offer here, at least at my clinic mm-hmm. Um, shared journey experiences. So if you buy so many rounds of I V F, you get a big discount on the total package.

So we had done that,  I was really glad that we did that.  So we did one more round of I V F and we got five embryos, but only two of which were genetically normal. Okay.  So we had three total euploid embryos and we  decided to do our first transfer in December of 2021. Okay. So we did your first transfer.

Beta numbers were great right off the bat. I'm like a crazy person and I take, you know, a first response pregnancy test starting three days past transfer, and then of course like measure all the lines. The anxiety is so a real thing. Oh my. Oh my gosh. Same. I had like a, I'm a crazy person. 

Whole piece of paper, like taped them down so I could like look at them all. I was, I'm the same thing. Yeah. 

Yep. I just like, there's no other way to do it in my honestly, I would rather know than not know. 

Exactly. And there's only like, so much sense of control you can feel in these kinds of certain situations. So like for me, it's almost like I thought I could change the line if I just kept staring at it, but yeah.

1000%. But you're so right. It is like, it is absolutely a sense of control thing. So yeah,  everything was going well. And then like from my second to third beta, I believe, like my numbers did not grow at all. And so then that was weird. Mm-hmm. But then, they kept doing betas essentially like every like three days after that at that point, because they were like, we gotta track this and see what's going on.

So my beta kept growing, but it wasn't doubling, but it kept growing. And we get to our first ultrasound, oh, and actually I should back up. This was the first time I realized this pregnancy, that my first sign of pregnancy was joint pain. And it was like within two days after transfer, I had debilitating joint pain in my knees and in my ankles and in my wrists.

And that was really, really, really strange. And on this transfer they had had me on heparin, which was kind of random, like as opposed to Lovenox, but. That clinic just likes to use heparin instead, because of my clotting factors. Before I would just be taking baby aspirin. Yeah. But at this time they were like, let's do heparin and see what happens.

Well, I ended up getting heparin induced thrombocytopenia,  which is like a really rare thing that can happen when you have an autoimmune disease and you take heparin and it  causes your platelets to drop like significantly. 

Oh my gosh. 

And you can essentially like completely screw up your whole life with heparin induced thrombocytopenia.

So, I woke up  five days after transfer. And I was like, there's something wrong. My legs had turned like spider webby, blotchy, like white and red. Mm-hmm. And I was like, there's something weird going on, but it's a Sunday. So I like tried calling the emergency line and I couldn't get through.

So I went to my pharmacist. I like walked into Walgreens and I was like, can I speak to the pharmacist? Like I need to know what's going on. And  he looked at me and he was like, You have to go to the hospital right now, like, whoa. He was like, what? What did I give you? And I was like, heparin, I just did a transfer.

I have multiple sclerosis. I went through the whole thing. He was like, you have to go to the hospital right now. So at that point, my nurse had actually called me back like right then. And she was like, come here. 'cause they're attached to a hospital. So I went to my clinic, attached to a hospital and they ran my blood work real quick.

And yes, I had me stop tein. Took some other medication. I don't even remember what it was. Again, I'm like, blackout mode. I'm like, not sure what's happening. Kind of scary. But the baby was still growing, which was crazy. Get over that. They switched me to Lovenox. Things temper out as far as like my.

Symptoms are concerned and we start going into, week five and a half is essentially where it was when I had my first, ultrasound. Everything looked great. Everything was measuring on time. Shockingly, even though my blood work did that weird thing, but that would've been, you know, around the time I was still coming off of, you know, the heparin induced thrombocytopenia. So they thought maybe that had something to do with that. 

Yeah, yeah. 

so we ended up going. To our second, appointment ultrasound, which was, would've been like right after six weeks. I went into that appointment and,  ended up being a blighted oum. And I had never heard of a blighted oum before. I had no idea what that was like. Essentially  I was just an empty sack.

So then they were like, okay, well this splatted ovum obviously had to have had something to do with the heparin induced thrombocytopenia. Like there's no other explanation for it, right? There just isn't. Because obviously healthy embryo, everything was going well, essentially until you, all of a sudden your platelets dropped.

Like, so let's blame that. Not their fault. I get, I probably would've done the exact same thing.  If I were in their shoes. So that was our fifth loss.  And at that point I like started to panic.  This was a healthy baby. Like there's no reason why this should have happened. So what I did was I started looking up reproductive immunology.

I was obviously new. I had I. immunological issues  so I found a doctor in Chicago where you are nice. She's like the number one reproductive immunologist in the country. And I got on her waiting list, which was six months, and I was like, I'm not doing another transfer. I'm not doing anything until I see this doctor.

I traveled to Chicago and I walked in and she like took my hands and was like, you know, we're a reproductive immunology clinic. She was like, but really? We're a recurrent loss clinic. You're in the right place. And I was like, oh wow.  I'm in the right place. This is amazing. I felt so much relief. I mean, they did so much more, and that's essentially where I ended up getting my  P C O S diagnosis, my hypothyroidism diagnosis, just because they're measurements their margins were so much narrower for like mm-hmm. Ideal pregnancy than,  most reproductive and endocrinologists are 

okay. 

So, , I learned so much from them to this day. The best care I've ever gotten  from any clinic, from any doctor ever. They were fantastic. 

That's amazing. I can imagine how you felt  like a weight off your shoulders when she said that like, this is a recurrent complete release because it's like I don't know if you felt this way, but  it almost. Starts to feel like you're just  this experiment that everyone's like, oh, okay, well that didn't work.

Scratch that. We'll just try this again. And like meanwhile, your mental health and  everything  it's just piling up and it's like, does anyone see the full picture here? Good for you for doing your research and for putting a pause. Like, I'm not doing another chancer until like Morris is figured out because.

It sucks that we as women, like we have to do so much  advocating for ourself, 

advocating for ourselves, 

which is like literally a whole full-time job in itself. Of course. So it's like, ugh, good for you. As you're telling me this, I'm like, that is how I felt. I'm like, I am not this weird experiment.

Like I'm not gonna just keep hoping for the best without more information.

Right with, I can't just keep thinking that one day I'm gonna fall on the right side of statistics. Right. Because I'm not like, yeah. I'm proving that time and time again that I'm not falling on the right side of statistics.

They like did weird things where they measured  my natural killer cells and  my cytokines, my T cells, essentially because they obviously knew I had autoimmune disease, and they also knew that because of my symptoms from  my fifth pregnancy with the joint pain and all of that, they realized that I was getting pregnancy induced rheumatoid arthritis.

Which is  also strange, but it was an indicator to them that obviously my immune system is going complete haywire whenever I do get pregnant and it recognizes it right off the bat because my symptoms literally would start within 48 hours after transfer. 

Wow. Yeah.

 There's just so much more to it than I think anybody kind of realized at this point.

So we ended up gearing up  for another transfer. And at the same time  my dad got really sick.  He got covid and my dad was 93, I mean mm-hmm. So old. He had done so well, you know, up until that point. And he ended up getting C and was hospitalized  and he ended up dying of Covid encephalitis so long, COVID.

Mm-hmm. 'cause he had multiple different types of cancers throughout his life, but as soon as he got covid, it just completely opened up the doors to  all the things that have been wrong with him in the past, like essentially came to light after he got covid. So anyway, 

I rescheduled my transfer because I was like, I'm determined to tell my dad I'm pregnant and staying pregnant before he dies. 

Yeah. 

 I dunno if it was like me trying to cope with like everything that was happening or we knew he didn't have that much longer.

And anyways, so I ended up doing a transfer in August of 2022 and then,  I ended up miscarrying 10 days before he died, but I'd never told him that I had miscarried. I just  carried on. So he died thinking that I was pregnant. So  that's what I wanted to do. I wanted him to think that. So, 

yeah. 

And then after that, that was a really hard little bit of time in 2022. And essentially I just was like, I. Like, I'm just gonna do this last transfer and see what happens.  You know, obviously I'm on a pretty like, intense protocol for my reproductive immunologists. They didn't really have any kind of explanation as to why I would've miscarried, because  even in their measurement eyes, like I was doing great.

 My betas were climbing perfectly. Normally there was no reason to miscarry again. Yeah.   They were like, let's do another transfer. This is your last embryo. Let's do it. See what happens. So we transferred our last embryo in December of 2022. And again, everything was going great, everything was perfect.

Um, we got to like six and a half weeks and I started bleeding. And this time it was a sub chorionic hematoma. And it was a huge sub chorionic hematoma.  And that is just a mystery diagnosis in itself. It's so fascinating to me, like, and I know it happens to so many people who go through I V F, I know it's incredibly common, but like mm-hmm.

Where do they come from? Yeah. Nobody seems to understand like where they come from, but it was one of those situations I had zero cramping. I literally stood up and I felt like, The only thing I could probably explain it or  like, I would equate it to like what it feels like when your water breaks, because that's what happened when I stood up. I mean, it just, 

oh my gosh. 

Poured out of me. 

Yeah. 

And of course it was a Sunday again, 

always.  I kid you not  when I was Pregnant or, or needing to take my kids to the doctor. Anything.  It is always on a weekend. It's like, I don't know, the universe always, it's like, oh, you need something? No.   Things always happen on a weekend. It kills me. Yeah. Ugh. 

Always, always. But fortunately at this point I had all of my nurses and my doctors on speed dial on my on cell phones. So fortunately my doctor went and met me at the clinic and  I got diagnosed with the sub chorionic hematoma.

Heart rate was totally fine, but I guess where the sub chorionic hematoma was, it was like I. So big, and it was pressing right where they said the umbilical cord,  would be attached to the placenta. And they were like, normally subcate hematomas are fine.  But because like, it was literally causing like my sac to be misshapen because it was so much blood.

And they were like, you're probably gonna miscarry. Like there's no, you just have to prepare yourself for that. They were like, there's so much weight on that point right there that there's no way you're probably gonna get through this. And they were right. And a week later we went back and there was no more heartbeat.

I hadn't bled, I hadn't done anything post that sub corion hematoma. But yeah, so we ended up doing our seventh D N C and we, Did test the tissue of this one just to make sure that there could have been an error in, you know, our genetic testing, just to make sure, you know. Yeah. And it was a perfectly, perfectly healthy baby.

Mm-hmm. Um, and then, yeah, I kind of just at that point, went into like, well, Maybe that's just not in my cards, like mm-hmm.   Is it my body? Is it, you know, that's something, a conversation that I had with my embryologist quite a bit. I was like, okay, obviously science is incredible, but like she said,  there are some things that we're just never gonna know. Life is always gonna be a step ahead of science. It just is. 

Yeah. 

And she was like, we know that there can be tiny, microscopic flaws in embryos that we don't have the technology yet to see. That is always the possibility. She was like, do I think  that's the case with you? I don't know.

 But what are the other explanations? Like, what are the other explanations? Right? And so at that point then I also got a diagnosis of a P ss, which is fine because I was already on Lovenox on all those things. So like that was just gonna be a thing. 

I dunno. Aps, what's that? 

Antiphospholipid syndrome. So it's another clotting. So it's another clotting factor that can oftentimes be induced by pregnancy.  

Oh, really? I didn't know that. 

Mm-hmm. Yeah,  I ended up getting that diagnosis pretty much right after this  last loss, and then I officially now have like a rheumatoid arthritis diagnosis all the time because mm-hmm.

After this last same thing happened, the last two transfers where I would get joint pain. Immediately after transfer. And it would not go away until after that pregnancy was concluded. And then this time it didn't go away, it just stayed. So that's really interesting that that all happened.  So at that point, like I didn't really know what I was gonna do.

We became an active family and adoption.  We're still waiting, hopefully. In the meantime, we actually decided to do one more round of I V F just to bank some embryos and see what would happen. 

Yeah. 

And so we did, and I'm waiting for pg t results like right now. So we'll see.

And the goal with that would be to say for a gestational carrier, yeah. I think I'm done being pregnant. Like, I don't, I don't think I can do that again. I just, I don't know, but I just don't know if I can emotionally, physically, why keep doing the same thing. It's not yielding different results, you know, so.

Yeah. Well, and  with every one, I mean, things were changed and like you said, it's wild  I find it very interesting too, learning about the body and all the things that you can learn from I V F, which like you mentioned, yes. I don't think a lot of people  look at it that way or see it that way.

Just like how a lot of people think, oh, you do I V F,  you'll get pregnant. Like that's not a given kind of thing. There's just so much involved, but it can really. Teach you a lot because it is so controlled. Everything from, you know, your eggs to your embryos to implantation and everything.  It's a wild ride for sure.

 When you came to this conclusion of like, okay,  I think we're, we're gonna set this part aside now,  and look into other options. I mean, how were you feeling? Were you feeling like a weight off your shoulders?  I guess what was going through your mind at that point?

Because I know  for me, it was very easy to get, like I was so determined that we just kept  doing things and doing things and doing things, and it wasn't till I  stopped for a while and I was  able to actually reflect on  everything that had taken place. How did you feel during that time?

Yeah. I think that's a really great question. Um, and honestly, one that I still like, struggle with. I don't know if I've made the right decisions.   All I've been able to do is like, make what I feel like is the next right decision. 

Yeah. 

Given the time and the evidence that I had in front of me, I. but one thing I started really, like, I'm definitely a type A,  I definitely am a control freak in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm.  I like things to meet and orderly and I like plans. Yeah. And I like, like all those types of things. Right. So I think this was the first time I'd ever like, had to sit with myself and be like, okay, so what if my plans and my destiny just do not.

Ever intersect what happens when they never, ever come together? Like, yeah, that's a thing that happens for people. Yeah. Like, do I just have to like accept for myself that that's might be what's happening with me? You know, it's the first time in my entire life where, and I'm sure you are like this, you know, our parents told us growing up , you can be anything you wanna be.

All you have to do is try. You just have to try. And this is the first time in my life where, That is not the case. It did not matter how hard I tried. I was still not getting what I wanted. Mm-hmm. It didn't matter how hard I tried, like it did not matter. It something was still just not working. Yeah. So that was like a really hard conversation I had to have with myself, and it's one that I'm still having with myself.

To this day, like I still feel fairly confident that I just don't know if I can be pregnant again. I just don't know if I trust myself to do that. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it's just been, it's been a hard time grappling with that. You know, I feel like people are really supportive and like, It's the lead up to that, right?

Right. The lead up to getting pregnant. And I mean there's also a lot of times when there is, that's not the case, but like where do you go get support when you have to make these really hard decisions? Like maybe your destiny is not to have a biological child. Like maybe it's just not. Yeah. And  where do I go to do that?

And that conversation with your partner is  really, really, really hard. Especially when they really wanna have a biological child. I mean,  it's just really hard when you have to like really? It's really hard. 

I just agree a thousand percent. I mean, we're very similar. I am type A as well. And  yes,  what you just said.  Resonated with me because it's like I've always been able to kind of get myself where I wanted to be as long as I tried hard enough and same,  my fertility and, and growing my family has been the first thing that I've like, it doesn't matter.

I'm doing all I can and I cannot make it work like the way that I envisioned it. And it's really hard to  Sit with yourself and, and realize that  like you said,  the dreams of what you want. Like they might not intersect,  and you have to kind of  reimagine what that looks like, which is hard to do.

I'm still going through it too, you know, and we're, we're  actively pursuing surrogacy and it's still like  hasn't really sunk in that  this is how we're growing our family.  And I try to keep telling myself like,  this part,  well, I won't forget it, obviously, because it's life changing.

You know, all these things that you've experienced and I've experienced,  now I look at my kids and I'm like, oh, I don't, I don't  see them as these two, like I V F,  amazing things that I did. I'm just like, they're my kids and I don't even think about how they got here, to be honest at this point.

So yeah, so I try to remind myself of that. And I think no matter what route you go, whether you have a biological child or not,  I would like to assume that it's kind of the same idea once you are in that peaceful state of like, this is the way life went and it takes a long time too, but I feel like I'm just now,  in this year, getting to a point where I'm like, wow,  my life is so different because of everything I've experienced and, and in a good way.

Like at this point I'm able to say that  and it was all really hard and,  like you said, there isn't a lot of support at this point. When, when all is said done and plans change or you pivot  or you move on in your life and you decide that  this journey's over, it's like, where do you go from here? Because that's when you start really processing things. And again, like, like you mentioned, let's not forget, it takes two people. So  you've got your husband's feelings  and how they have reflected on everything or not. And it all kind of comes like honed in  when you take that pause.

So, that makes total sense to me that you're still in it and still figuring it out. And I think it's one of those things that a lot of women can relate to,  it's a lot of soul searching through infertility and, you learn a lot about yourself, for better or worse, I guess.

Absolutely. I think that's like the key right there, right? You learn so much about yourself that you didn't think you would ever have to learn. 

Right. 

You know, and it's something that every day I'm still learning more about,  But instead of infertility taking up like a hundred percent of my day and a hundred percent of my brain space, I've had to like, like what could I do with my day if I wasn't thinking about this?

Think about how much room in my brain it would free up if I just mm-hmm. If I could even just take a couple hours out of that day and not be thinking about my. Infertility journey. Like, yeah, what could I do? You know? 

Yeah. But at that point too,  I don't know if you've felt this way yet, but  I had like a little bit of an identity crisis. When we decided, like when we were done. Absolutely. Like when I was not gonna carry like, attempt to get pregnant myself again. I was like,  it's been so many years. I don't know who I am outside of trying to get pregnant and stay pregnant and be this fertility vessel, like I don't know who I am. So it, it's, it's crazy to picture life without that. But  it's pretty freeing  when you can free up your mind  to consume other things. 

For sure. And I think that that's a really big part of it is that like infertility hijacks your entire life, right?  You plan your vacations or lack thereof around it. You're like, oh, well I have a transfer in December, so in June I might not be able to go to that wedding, so I'm gonna go ahead and r rss v p. Note to that, that that destination wedding that you wanna go to, that's one of your really good friends. I mean, it literally reframes the way that you think about your future.

Yeah. And. What possibly could happen, which is not very healthy, it turns out. Like in general. Yeah, like, 

and you have to like adjust your thinking to living in the moment again, because yeah, you're right.  And I've always kind of been like this my whole life. Maybe it's a type A thing, but I'm always thinking about planning what's next, what's gonna look like, and you kind of forget to live in the moment.  I've kind of forgot that. All those things that you have to, every step of the way you're thinking about like, yeah, like, oh, can't go on that vacation, or maybe we should save money 'cause we're gonna have to do another round or this and that, and it's, it's. It's always like three steps ahead of your life. Yeah, 

for sure. And I am definitely that person. I'm just like you, like, I think 12 steps ahead, always. I'm always trying to strategize in my brain, you know? And that strategy stronghold has been, gotta get pregnant, gotta stay pregnant, gotta have a baby. Like that's where it's all been rooted in. Instead of being rooted in like, let's have a happy life.

Like yeah, exactly. Let's, yeah, let's like, let's enjoy this life. Yeah. It's been for the last five years. The opposite of that, like Right, how do I move forward and still have a baby? Yeah. And do that. And so, you know, I think that that's  been a big part of why I created the fertility resort. I just keep going back to the sentiment of I just didn't know what I didn't know, like this whole journey. And I still don't know what I don't know.   And during this process I met the most incredible woman, her name's, Dr. Aaron Attaway.

She's a doctor of acupuncture in Chinese medicine and she works specifically with fertility patients. And, she was literally my lifesaver,  through this infertility I V F process. My clinic was like, you have to go see her. She's gonna change your life. She's the only person we tell our patients to go see.

And she literally did that She was my coach. She helped me pivot my life. Like she's the one who sat me down and was like, okay, this might just not work for you  and that is a conversation that we need to have. You know, she was the first person that ever really held space for me for that to just be like, this really sucks and let's just think about that for a minute.

Yeah. 

And it was just like waterworks constantly. Because she was the first person that really. Told me it was okay to  fail at something like, yeah, it's okay to just. Did not work. 

It's amazing that you found somebody like that because there's not a lot of people in this whole process that are gonna be the ones to say that. 'cause they're all trying to, you know, quote unquote fix you and, and make this happen for you. But that's so great that you met her because you need people  in your life like  that are gonna be like real with it to help you navigate  that it might not work otherwise you just put all your eggs in one, like, literally like one basket. And we're just gonna keep plowing through. 

 Right. And  I'm just so thankful for her. She just like helped me understand the reality of the situation. that this is what's happening and these are the options now. Like these are the things that you can do now to move forward, you know?

And so  like a year and a half ago, it was like when I first really started thinking about the fertility resort and  creating a space that  could provide you with answers to the questions that you didn't know you should ask, like before you even knew to ask them, you know?

Mm-hmm.  Like could we improve the live birth rate if People just had the tools and resources to optimize their journey at the beginning of their journey as opposed to three years in and you're at the like, oh fuck situation. Right, right, right. No, all good, but like, what if we could do that?

Because that's essentially what Erin did for me is she like took all of my doctor's notes. All the things that they were trying to tell me, and she synthesized them down so that I could have  real action steps and action plans to implement those things that they wanted. You know, and it's not like your doctors don't want you to be successful.

They want you to be successful, but there's so much more information that they wish that they could provide to every patient that they just like don't have the time to do. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And so, 

and plus all the different doctors, at least I learned they all kind of have  their own lane, like an ob, they do does this. Then you've got your  reproductive endocrinologist, and, and everyone has their own thing that they focus on. So they're all doing the best of what they know. But  I just felt like it was my job to  piece everyone together  to really get a full picture of what was going on.

1000%. The whole body experience is so important when it comes to I V F and just  reproduction in general. Yeah. Like if something's wrong. Erin said to me one time,  she was like, okay, you have to think about your body as like a refrigerator. Right? She was like, you know, you have, I. A carton of eggs that are sitting in your refrigerator. But in order for that carton of eggs to be fresh, first you have to make sure that there's a plug to the refrigerator, and then that plug is plugged in and there's power coming  to the refrigerator. And then you have to make sure that the temperature is at the correct temperature to make sure that the eggs are going to be safe and they're gonna be kept healthy for as long as possible.

And then you have to clean out the refrigerator because if there's any rotten vegetables or like spoiled meat or anything like that, You have to clean that out, and then you have to do regular maintenance on the refrigerator to make sure that everything's in working order to keep your eggs safe and healthy.

She was like, that's what you have to do with your body. You know, it's not just about the eggs, it's about the environment that your eggs are in and how can we make that environment? Optimize for your unique fertility journey. So 

I love that. 

That's essentially, 

that is like such a good picture. That makes so much sense to me. And I'm just thinking too,  even for people who don't experience infertility or go through all these different things, like no one really thinks about it like that. I feel like, like the big picture, 

right. but it is, it's the big picture, right? And so that's what the fertility resort does it's a community, of course, peer-to-peer support, and then provider support as well. It's content. So it's evidence-based research in the form of live events, articles, all the things. And it's synthesized down into action plans so that you can really understand according to your diagnosis,  what you're experiencing.

It's like fit for you, right?  And then it's coaching. And by coaching I kind of like hate that term a little bit because coaching can get a lot of like flack for a lot of different reasons. Yeah. Because it's not coaching, but there's not a better word for it, right? Yeah. So on the fertility resort platform, we have  licensed mental health counselors that come in and they do weekly small group therapy sessions for people.

Wow. We have weekly support groups. We have affiliate providers like Doctors of acupuncture and Chinese medicine. A pelvic floor therapist who can come in and explain to you like what's happening when you go through A D N C and like the kind of trauma that your pelvic floor can go through when you're having a miscarriage.

Or even just going through the I V F process in general, right? Like when you experience O H S S after a retrieval,  there's so much that can happen to your pelvic floor. So we have that. We have, Perinatal yoga practitioners who come in and teach gentle movement so that you know, like based on where  you're at in your cycle or in your journey,  you can still move your body and it's okay.

Yeah. Because moving your body is so important. So it's a collective of all these professionals in one space who can give you everything that you need to know in order to optimize your journey. 

Amazing. So amazing. 

That's essentially what the fertility resort is 

literally amazing. When I. First read that you were doing this. I was like, shut up  where has this been my whole life? It's so great. And like you said, this is so helpful for women  you don't know what questions to ask or what to experience until it's already happening to you and within a resource like this, right? Oh my gosh. At least you will have like, I didn't, just a few things you just mentioned.

I was like, yeah, I didn't know any of that until I was going through it  and wow, what, what an amazing space. And I love that there's  group therapy too. That's. Just, yes. Amazing. 

  That's such a big part of all of this, right? 

That's a big part. Yes. 

And a lot of times, and I'm gonna tell you, I've been to see several therapists and, you know, unless they specialize in, infertility you're not gonna get much out of it. Yeah. But unfortunately, it's just such a hard space to exist in, to share feelings without the professional you're sharing your feelings with, knowing how to handle that, you know? Yeah. Like it's such a unique journey. That isn't even that unique anymore, which is so wild to me.

You know, one in six scuffles now that's the other thing, like yeah, it's so strange and the stigma behind it. I just think that that mm-hmm. Is so poor and there's so much with the fertility resort that's even more than that, that like we want to shed light and like one of Erin and I's big things is we think talking about, I don't know about you, but.

Talking about infertility in the workplace is really difficult.  How much do you share? I mean, women are already scared to tell their boss that they're pregnant. Right? They're just Right. It's already a thing  for the majority of women is kind of scary to do. Right? Yeah. But like how do you explain to your boss that you're going through I V F treatments that you're gonna need off work?

You don't know exactly when, but like you're gonna need to take an hour here or there, maybe three times a week to go get blood work or go to an ultrasound or, I don't know what day exactly I'm gonna have my egg retrieval, but just so you know, I'm gonna be out for two days, like sometime in two weeks. Like so how do you convers have that conversation? 

There's like not an inspiration on it. 'cause you never know, like, If it's gonna work or not. This could be ongoing for years. Like you don't know and you have to explain that to an employer. Oh my gosh. 

So that's one thing that we wanna do, is we wanna educate employers how to have these conversations and how to open up that door so that women feel, and even men who are going through this, like how to handle that.

How to handle your employees that are going through a really difficult time in their lives. So, There's a lot to it.  There's a lot of advocacy that we know we really want to do to change the narrative. And it's not even, I mean, there's so many amazing companies and people out there who are doing that already, but yeah, infertility is a disease.

It should not be treated like it's anything other than that, you know? Yeah. You're gonna talk about your uncle's cancer, you should be able to talk about your aunts in fertility journey, or whatever it is, like in the exact token. 

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I would love to know, I know they say  the statistics now are like one in six couples, but and it could just be  kinda like one of those things once you own a silver jeep, you see silver Jeeps  on the street everywhere.

You know, I feel like maybe totally could just be my space where I, I'm like convinced that every single person I know in life has in fertility. But  it's definitely  more common than it. And I'm sure a lot of that too is just, I mean, there's a million factors, but also people are waiting, longer to have kids, which can present problems and things.

And, it's really interesting that  this should definitely be at the forefront of conversations and no one should be afraid to talk about it. 'cause you're right,  it's not like something you choose to do. It's something that happens to you. It's a disease. I mean, I know the narrative with  I V F has changed over the years.

'cause back then it used to feel Like a luxury, like oh, you're just totally, that's so great. Totally. And it's like, yeah, this isn't really the plan though. This isn't  fun.  And same thing with and I'm just learning now,  with the option of  surrogacy or even adoption, you know, so many people are like, oh, why don't you just adopt?

Why don't you just do this? Or  you think that surrogates are for  celebrities only and it's like this luxury and it's like, no, there's  so many reasons why,  You know, everyone has their own story, but  what has led to these decisions and there's a lot involved with it. So,  I am about just talking about it.

Well, and there's no wrong way to grow your family there is no wrong way to do it. Like everything is beautiful and it should be, and  I think it's an amazing thing that we have science to have surrogates, gestational carriers to do these types of things, you know? Because that's essentially our next step.

Like if we're lucky enough to get any OID embryos, I mean, yeah, they're gonna be saved, you know? And. It is a luxury in a sense that  I mean, most people can't afford, a lot of people can't afford to go these routes. 

Yeah. It, it's definitely not accessible to everyone, which is not lost on me for sure. It's, yeah. But  I'm still in awe  that women are out there willing to do this for other people.  It's, it's crazy 

for sure. It's an incredible gift. Like, if I could do it, I would do it for somebody else.  I just think that that's, I don't know, one of the most extraordinary gifts you could give somebody to like, help them make life.

 I just think it's beautiful. Yeah. And even with, you know, adoption, the whole toxic positivity problems that exist in the infertility world,  are things that I wish that I could educate.  That's something that I really want to do. That's something that the fertility resort really wants to do is,  to create an education system for, you know, Your great aunt Karen, who doesn't know what to say to you and Right.

Oftentimes will say the wrong thing to you. Yeah. You know, like how can we create a new language so that everybody understands the right way to say things and how to be supportive Yeah. Of the people who are going through it. Right. So, absolutely. I don't know. There's a lot of work to be done. 

I know. I'm like, I am. Like, where do you begin?  You've got all these awesome things already going for with the fertility resort, but I'm, I'm like feeling it. I'm like, okay, yeah. Like what can we, what are we gonna do next? Like this, uh, I love it. 

That's my day all day. I'm like, I have so many ideas and so many things I wanna execute. And I'm like, okay. Just one at a time. 

Yeah. One at a time. Yes. But no you guys, I can't wait to see what the fertility resort is gonna do and is already doing for so many people. So how does someone join the fertility resort? What does that look like? What are  the details of that? 

Sure.  So it is a membership based community. It is an online community. It is available for your desktop and as a mobile app for iOS and Android. Awesome. And so memberships, we're doing a promotion right now  we actually don't offer lifetime memberships, but it's something we decided to do last minute because the more I thought about it, the more I was like, well, you don't know how long your journey is gonna take.

Right? Yeah. Like, You just don't know. So anyways, we're doing a promo right now for lifetime memberships, but typically you'd be able to do a month to month membership, or you can do a three month membership or a year long membership.  And there's kind of like reasons for doing any of them, right?

Three months is the average length of a I V F cycle, typically from egg retrieval to transfer.  And a year is. More often what most people experience, you know? Yeah. But for that person that just needs a little bit of help to get them through the next little hump in their journey,  a month to month membership is something that, we recommend for those people, you know?

Yeah. So,  you can follow us on Instagram at the fertility resort and then you can go and learn more about memberships on www.thefertilityresort.com. 

That's amazing, and I'll be sure to link it all in the show notes so everyone can just easily just click on it and find you guys. And you also are  in the process of, you  will be having a podcast as well, right?

Yes. So just like motherhood intended is, there's a lot of like the dark secret, creepy, weird stuff that happens when you're going through your infertility journey that like people really don't wanna talk about. So we have some. Pretty cool guests.  Our podcast is called Protected Space.

So like the title suggests it's a protected space to talk about all things that are like the underbelly of infertility that you might not want to talk about to your best friend. Are things that you wanna learn about. Right. So, 

yeah, definitely. 

That's, essentially, that's the podcast. And that is coming out in September, and we're so excited to do that. And  we're so excited to have you on our podcast too, today. 

I know. I was just gonna say, I'm so excited to be on it and to start listening, and  I'm just excited for everything you're doing and,  uh, Follow along because I'm  so passionate in  supporting this because it is very much needed in the infertility community and  it's gonna make a big impact  on many people's lives. So thank you so much for you guys putting this out into the world.  I'm so excited for the fertility resort. 

Thanks Jacqueline. I'm so excited. I was on this podcast today. It made my morning. Yeah, it's just awesome. 

This so nice. Thank you so much for sharing your own story.  I know listeners out there are gonna relate to one piece. Or all of it.  We all have our own journeys, but the more I've talked to other women, there's so many different pieces that we all experience through this whole process and can relate to. So it's always nice knowing that, you know, we're not alone through all of this, so thank you. 

So true. Thank you, Jacqueline. This has been awesome.

Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode of Motherhood Intended. I am always just so inspired by the brave women who step up and share their stories of infertility and loss. It is not an easy thing to share with the world, but the more women that step up and share their experiences with infertility, the more women that are not gonna feel alone.

I hope with every guest that I have on the show, you can take away something you can feel seen, heard, supported, educated, inspired. That is the goal of this podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to hit the fifth star and leave a review. I've said this before and I'll say it again. I absolutely love the feedback and leaving a review for a podcast is honestly the best way that you can support this show.

With so many new podcasts popping up every single day, it helps the show be visible. It helps lead other listeners to motherhood intended. And honestly, the feedback is just priceless. 

 If your kids are headed back to school this week, I just wanna say, mama, you did it. I know the summer can be so much fun, but can also be so hard having all the kiddos home as well. So yay, half of yourself, a little drink. Have yourself a fancy coffee. Just enjoy the morning of dropping your kids.

Back off at school or for the moms like me who are maybe sending your little ones off to school for the first time. It's okay to shed that tear. I know. Time flies. If you're listening and you're currently in a cycle of I V F or navigating a loss or infertility, 

I want you to know that I am here for you, and so is the motherhood intended community. There is always going to be an abundance of advice and suggestions when you're navigating infertility. And I know firsthand that sometimes you just wanna feel heard.

You just wanna vent about how much it sucks, and that's what I'm here for. And so is the motherhood intended community. So if you're going through this right now in the next week, feel free to reach out to me. You can send me a DMM on Instagram, message me on Facebook through the Motherhood Intended Community Group.

There are so many women here to support you.

That's all for today. I hope you have a great weekend, and you'll hear from me again next week.