BRCA Gene Mutation + IVF + Genetic Testing: Angela's Story

Jacqueline is joined by Angela, a BRCA previvor and mom of twins. In this episode, Angela shares her journey to motherhood and educates listeners on the BRCA gene mutation. Take a listen to how she took control of her health, took preventative measures from passing this gene down to further generations, and how that paved the way to the family she has today.

In this episode...

• What is the BRCA gene?
• The effect of the BRCA gene mutation on your health
• Preventative double mastectomy
• IVF and genetic testing of embryos
• Egg donation
• Motherhood post fertility treatments

Struggling to conceive? Go from feeling stressed and worried to CALM and CONFIDENT with this *FREE* Month-by-Month Roadmap to Your Fertility Success!

•  Connect with Angela on Instagram
•  Leave a review for the podcast
•  Join the Motherhood Intended Community
•  Follow @motherhood_intended on Instagram
•  Reach out to Jacqueline via e-mail: hello@motherhoodintended.com

If you're interested in helping give the absolute greatest gift to deserving parents, learn more about becoming a surrogate (and earn up to $650 just for taking the first few simple steps!): share.conceiveabilities.com/hello12

BRCA information found here.

Transcript

 Thanks for joining me for another episode of motherhood intended. So with the holiday seasons coming up, I know there are lots of fun to be had and you're seeing family and friends and doing all the fun things. But I also know that the holiday season can be stressful. It can be filled with anxiety and a busy schedule and never ending to do lists.

So I want to tell you this. If you are in the season of life where you are trying to get pregnant, maybe you're struggling to get pregnant. I have an opportunity for you to take control of the future of your fertility. Everyone's path will look different, but the month by month guide that I've created is here to help you feel calm and confident on your journey to baby.

Even when things get overwhelming through the holidays,

I want you to be able to start the new year off knowing that you have a plan, a plan for when things get stuck in your trying to conceive journey and little tips and tricks to help you feel calm and confident along the way. So, as you know, I come to you with 10 years of my own personal infertility experience.

My path to motherhood included many doctors, medications, surgeries, seven rounds of IUIs, two miscarriages, IVF, three embryo transfers, spontaneous conception, and a stillbirth. Ultimately, this all paved the way for the two children we're grateful to have with us, and a third that is safely on the way,

 We are 18 weeks along due in April via our gestational carrier. That being said, as every week, month, and year passed, I truly never gave up on my dream of becoming a mom. During that time, I learned a lot about myself, both physically, mentally, and spiritually. But through it all, the desire to have children remained.

But I learned to open my heart and mind to new possibilities of exactly how motherhood could become my reality. And now, I'm honored to help guide you. So this roadmap I created isn't about, like, New Year's resolutions or stressful to dos. If anything, it's the opposite. It's simply a helping hand here with ideas to increase your chances of fertility success.

It's a guide that has tips that you can implement today to help you along your trying to conceive journey. It's here for you if you are just talking about trying to start your family, or if you've been trying to conceive for a while with no luck, maybe you started investigating a little bit further and started some fertility treatments.

Either way, the tips in this guide will help you feel your best. Especially when you're feeling stuck on the road to motherhood. That being said, of course, this roadmap is not meant to replace medical advice. So always reach out to your doctor with questions and concerns. But I want you to know that I'm rooting for you.

So click the link in the show notes and grab this free guide. I'm telling you, you can implement these tips today and you will be on your way to feeling calm and confident on your way to baby.

My guest today is here to share her story and give some information on the BRCA gene mutation. So, there are two genes that are important to fighting cancer, the BRCA1 and BRCA2. They are tumor suppressor genes. So when they work together, these genes help keep breast, ovarian, and other types of cells from growing and dividing too rapidly or in an uncontrolled way.

Normally, the BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes protect you, like I said, from getting these certain cancers, but some mutations prevent them from working properly. So, if you inherit one of these gene mutations, you are more likely to get breast, ovarian, and other cancers. 

In this episode, Angela shares with me her story on how she took control of her health, took preventative measures from passing this gene down to further generations, and how that molded the way that she created her family today. Take a listen.

Hi, Angela. Thanks for joining me on the podcast today. 

No problem at all. Happy to be here. 

I'm excited to have you. We've like reconnected from college, right? It's been a while. 

Yeah, it's been a very long time. I think the last time we were truly together was probably at a house party at my now husband's. Old apartment. 

Yes. Yeah. I think you're right. I love it. It's full circle moment here. And now here we are, connecting over the topic of motherhood and fertility and all the things. So I'm very excited to learn more about your story. I kind of know the cliff notes from following you on social media, but, I think listeners can learn a lot from your journey. so let's start from the beginning, as you mentioned, and I know this, but you and your husband met in college. 

Yes, we met in college.  We lived together for years and then after I think eight years of dating, we finally took the jump and got married and. I really thought going into marriage, it would be like, Oh, you know, this clean cut, you know, living together, marriage babies and moving on.

And it couldn't have been further from the truth, but you know, hindsight looking back, it's  exactly what should have happened, but you know, you have ideas of what, what's going to happen. 

Oh, for sure. I get that a hundred percent. So I know you. have  health diagnoses that have kind of shaped the way that you and your husband have decided to grow your family and take care of your own health. Tell me more about that and for listeners kind of walk us through what that looked like for you.  

Absolutely. To start just kind of in a nutshell, my dad, my biological father, his entire side of his family, um, is pretty riddled with cancer. It's predominantly breast cancer. There has been ovarian.

So after many years and generations of this, My one aunt who was diagnosed with breast cancer decided they need to do genetic testing to see what the heck is going on. So if your parent, or if you're a carrier, you have a 50 50 chance of passing it to your child.  So unfortunately, my dad did find out he was positive for the BRCA1 gene, which men can carry as well.

and then when I was tested, I unfortunately found out I was positive. And that was in,  end of June, beginning of July of 2017.  And from there, I'm not a person that can sit and wait around and do proactive  doctor's appointments. That's just not who I am. I kind of feel like. I was always waiting for the shoe to drop.

So from there, I had a preventative double mastectomy in October of 2017. So for the people that don't know, carrying the BRCA,  there's BRCA1 and BRCA2. I have the BRCA1 genetic mutation. And basically what that does is it puts you at a significantly higher risk for breast cancer and ovarian cancer. I know skin cancer is in there as well, but it's not as high. You just have to be diligent and getting that checked out. 

Yeah. 

But breast cancer, you have in the high eighties. So let's just call it like 88 percent increased risk of breast cancer. Varying cancer, I think it's upwards of 60 percent increased risk. 

Wow. That's really high. 

Yeah. It, it, it's scary high, you know, especially today with, you know, everything we're eating in the earth and you know, what's in the water and having,  the genetic mutation. Unfortunately, I just decided. I need to be smart and take control of my own destiny. 

Yeah, that's really brave. And, and that's so crazy that, you know,  it's passed down through generations and it has such a high risk of cancer that was really brave of you. So how old were you when you decided that you were going to do this? 

So I was. 31,  I believe it was 31 is when I was tested and said, I had it in my head, no matter what, if it came back positive, I was going to be super proactive,  early thirties.

And we were just kind of starting to try to have babies naturally before this. And then once I found out I was positive, we put a hard halt on trying to get pregnant. Okay. So we just wanted to, we knew there was genetic testing available with IVF, but we didn't even know an ounce of it past that. 

And so before you got tested yourself, did you. I guess growing up or like as a teenager, did you know that this would be a possibility for you? This kind of came to light when you said your aunt was kind of like, okay, we need to look into this further or 

yeah, kind of, you know, we always kind of knew that, um, the family was predisposed to breast cancer. It wasn't this big red flag that it kind of came to be. My aunt, When she wrote down the family tree and kind of looked at everything with her geneticist is when the big red flag came up and said, holy cow, we need to test you guys.

So once that came to light, I think she was tested. I could be so wildly wrong. I want to say 2015, 2016 is when she was tested. So that's kind of when it came to a head. 

Gotcha. That's really awesome that your aunt kind of mapped that all out to just kind of dive in deeper. I mean, it's so important for, you know, obviously not only your health, but like the generations to come. That's crazy. 

Absolutely right. She kind of saved a lot of lives. I think, I mean, she would say not at all, but I truly firmly believe like this is a key to our health and it was the greatest thing she could have done for us. 

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. That is, that's amazing.  So at this point, then, you decided to be proactive and you put a halt on trying to have a baby. So where did you go from there? You said that you, you knew about IVF and that there was genetic testing available. Did you dive right into IVF or what, what was the next step that you took after that? 

So what we did is I want to say it was like a week or two before my,  vasectomy in October, we scheduled a consultation with my, well, now fertility doctor, we were just meeting him at the time and just to kind of let him know our path.

And  my husband and I wanted to hear what his thoughts were. So we had the initial consultation, early October of 2017. And he said that. He was fully supportive of doing this. He said,  he thinks it was the smartest decision. So from there, he said, go have the surgery. We'll talk more after your surgeries, but what we're going to do is once we create embryos, You know, we have to do the egg retrieval and testing, but once we get to the point of testing embryos, we're going to test all of your embryos that we retrieve for the gene.

So we left that appointment feeling really hopeful that this gene won't get passed down for future children. So from there. We kind of closed that book for a little bit. I knew that the recovery from the mastectomy was going to be kind of intense. So I shelved that for a little bit. And then from there, just dove right into the surgery.

Gotcha. And is, I, I actually don't know. Cause I mean, I know about genetic testing of embryos and we've done that ourselves, but it's testing for this specific like gene mutation. Is that like a standard in the testing or is that something that they had to like specifically go in and test? 

So they have, I know they have the chromosomal testing, which we also did, but when you're looking for a very specific gene, you need to, it was actually kind of crazy because we were trying to do this organic.

Really cute. You know, surprising our parents when we were pregnant,  anything about IVF right away. But once we found, once we jumped into the IVF world, um, after I was recovering and everything  they sent me a kit in the mail and they had to get a vial of my saliva as well as my dad's saliva. So I had to call him that way.

What they do is create a DNA strand. And they create what they call a probe. I don't know what it looks like, but it's basically a probe to test your embryos.  So from there, once the DNA strand was created, which is, it's mind boggling to me what they can do. It's the coolest thing ever. What's that?

You really do? Yeah. So then from there, they were testing for that specific gene. Nothing else was tested in that since I don't think they needed to. Okay. Yeah. 

Okay. Okay. That makes sense. That's really interesting. Yeah. Science, science is wild. Thank gosh for science. Oh my gosh. Okay. So I can only imagine that recovery from your surgery was a little bit difficult. How did that go for you? And how long after recovery, did you even remotely think of like next steps? 

So unfortunately there's like a big joke within me and my family and my husband, if something's going to go wrong, it will go wrong with me. So I was anticipating, um, probably about eight weeks after my initial surgery to kind of jump into IVF.

That didn't quite happen. much. So again, I know I've said this 10 times, but my surgery was in October of 17. And then I had to go back in February. Yeah. Early February of 2018  to have my revision surgery. So basically what they did in the initial surgery was put in hard plastic deflated implants. And then I, a couple of weeks.

Um, every couple of weeks to have them filled, um, just to kind of get my chest stretched out for the implants. And then from after all of that was based, my chest was essentially inflated. In February they went and swapped out those, they're called the expanders. They swapped expanders for my implants.

And then from there is when they said, okay, once you heal. You're good to go. Like, you know, you can always do revision surgeries and I'm sure you're going to want to tweak some things later on with, you know, breast reconstruction, but it doesn't sound like you want to do that right now. So just go have fun, go into the world of trying to have a family.

Unfortunately I kept  having infections pop up.  So for some reason my body was rejecting my left implant. We don't know why, we still have no idea why. And I had three additional surgeries. Right after that, almost essentially back to back every few months. Oh, wow. 

And the final one was in May of 2019. So we had to wait from February of 17 until 19 because of all of my I guess, hurdles in between there, I had done an egg retrieval. I had done testing with IVF, but everything kept getting derailed because of my infections and... Bye. I get nervous saying that with, you know, my infections and my problems that I did have because I don't ever want that to deter someone from having this surgery because infections, everything, removal of my left implant, um, which we did in 2019, we decided let's give your body a break.

 I still would do the surgery tenfold. It saved my life. And the surgeries are not fun. The infections are not fun. Do not get me wrong. I hated every minute of it. Yeah. But I still wouldn't change what I had done or was doing at the time. So I just really want to make that super clear to anyone. 

Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad you said that because it absolutely seems like  the reward far outweighs the risk, I guess that's right. Yeah. And, and, you know, everyone's body's different. So just because you had an infection doesn't mean somebody else will and man, the long term effect is huge. Yeah. Absolutely. 

Exactly. And I know so many women who, and I mean, I say girls lightly. I mean, I, I know a woman, but yeah, it sounds like we're gross. So I know so many,  from it's called the breasties organization who a lot of women are like, Me who have had cancer, who have not had cancer, but have had surgeries,  may have flown through this process.

Yeah. It was a recovery. Don't get me wrong. It's not fun, but they've like killed the process and they've moved on with their lives and like, haven't thought twice about it since. Yeah. So it's very doable. 

Yeah. It sounds like it's just very individual, is there a certain age for someone who might be in the same position or, you know, wanting to be proactive in their health? Is there a certain age that. is recommended to do a surgery like this? Like, should you wait until you're a little bit older? Or  if you're young and know that you have this mutation, can you have surgery? I guess, I don't know how that works. Is it, is there a timeframe? 

From my understanding, I don't know how old they kind of suggest for surgery, but I know that,  because with my IVF doctor, I made a comment that if we do implant, which we didn't and we won't, but if for some reason we did implant embryos, um, that were positive for the BRCA gene, what I want to test my children anyway.

And he said, you actually cannot test them until they're 18.  Okay. Or excuse me, going to a geneticist and having,  um, now I know there's the 23 and anything that you could do. I, I don't know enough about that to  speak on that. But I know girls who have had the surgery at 21, 22. Um, but I don't think there's a cutoff. I would imagine anything 18 and over, but not a total quote. 

Yeah, no, that's interesting. That's kind of what I was assumed, but,  because I'm sure like the more technology advances too, and people are talking about these things, I'm sure anyone who, you know, might have the same family. History might be interested and diving in further. So I just popped in my brain. That's really interesting. Okay. So. Two years in between all of that. That is a while. Were you just happy to be progressing  in what you're trying to do? Or were you like frustrated with the timeline? How, how are you feeling at this point?,

I,  in the beginning, I just kept saying, no, it's fine. We're doing this for the greater good. And then my last infection in May of 2019,  It felt like I was taken out at the knees.

It just felt, how can this keep happening?  Because at the end of the day, all I kept thinking about was starting a family. I didn't care about my boobs at this point anymore. Like, I remember going into surgery, my last surgery and my doctor saying, okay, we can try this Hail Mary, let's put in this new implant.

And I remember crying 10 minutes before my surgery, telling them. I can't do it anymore. I just want to start a family. The risk is not outweighing this reward right now. I know I'm cancer free and all of that, but right now the vanity piece of it, I need to put on the shelf. I need to just simply work on having a family.

So that's when we decided. We're removing the implant and then we'll talk. And then unfortunately, another bomb dropped. It was a couple of days later, I had blood clots in my leg. So that came from the surgery and I was simultaneously taking IVF drugs. So that derailed me another few months, unfortunately, but thankfully everything cleared up really well.

And we hit the ground running. I mean, years later, but hit the ground running.  And I want to say it was. August of 2019 is when it was like, okay, boobs are done. We're done talking about them. We're done with everything for now. So we're starting IVF now. And once I was cleared, we were

 Yeah. Oh my goodness. It's so relatable when you're like, and then this happened and then I'm like, that's, uh, I feel the same way. I'm like, well, if there are odds that, you know, X, Y, and Z will happen. I don't worry. I'll make it happen. Like  always on the wrong side of statistics  

and it's the worst thing to laugh about, but I have to laugh and I'm sure you're the same way you have. Not you're going to sit and cry. And yeah,  all day long. 

Absolutely. And it's one of those things, like you just try not to dwell on it, especially when, you know, at the end of the day, like  you're still going towards the ultimate goal, you know, having a family and having a safe and healthy family.

And that's what I try and tell myself too. It's like, there's a lot of bumps in the roads and how you achieve that. And everyone has their own story, but it's like, just keep your eyes on the prize and,  and throw away timelines, if I've learned one thing, it's like plans and timelines are really cute, but like, yeah, it's just everything's going to work out the way it's going to.

Absolutely right. What's that saying? If you have a plan, God laughs. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, exactly. Like, I think about it all the time. Yeah. My husband always uses the phrase, um, you know, like those means that say like, Oh, I'm going to do this. And the universe says, hold my beer. Oh yeah.  He always said, so go, okay, easy.

Hold my beer. Like, that's, I love that. That's hilarious. That is  so accurate.  Oh my goodness. Okay. So IVF. So you said during that time you did do an egg retrieval, right?  Trying to remember all of my IVF stuff now. Did you create embryos already or what? Okay. So now when you're talking like the ground running, like you were ready to start, a cycle and do an embryo transfer. How did that go? How did you get started in starting IVF. Doing the meds, doing the transfer, 

it felt great. It felt like I hate to use this word magical because it's so cheesy, but I went in and I think we, I'm trying to think we had either six or seven embryos that came of the original egg retrieval. The first one. And three came back, brought the negative. Okay.  Between three and four were positive.

Yeah, it was seven. We had so four came back positive and then three came back negative. So I really went into this, frankly, kind of cocky. I was like, they've been chromosomally tested. They've been genetic tested. Oh, we're getting pregnant. Like I would.  So just blissfully ignorant. 

but I think like a lot of women in IVF go through this cause you just like, don't know, like, you know, there's these steps and, but there's, there's always so much more to it.

Cause I was the same way. We didn't even test our embryos right away. And I was like, Whoa, eight embryos. Like, Holy cow. We're going to have like a football team. It's going to be crazy. Like they're all graded. Well, it's going to be awesome. And like, Oh my gosh, as the journey progresses and I learned more about genetic testing and just, Okay. Transfers and just all the things that, that the numbers, they, they dwindle.  

You hit the nail on the head. That's exactly it. Like we're going to have a football team. Yeah. No, God left.    It's not meant to be right now.  My doctor was pretty conservative. He said, with all of your complications that you had faced, let's just do one embryo at a time right now.

And I said, that's fine. Like I went into it totally fine, blissfully ignorant. First one didn't take. The second one didn't take third one didn't take. So that's when it was like, Oh man, like what the heck is happening?  

And did you do those transfers back to back or did you wait, have time in between 

pretty much back to back? I mean, I think I had to wait two and a half ish months in between, you know, just  the blood work, the cycles, you know, the, what are they, the ultrasound appointments, just kind of getting your body ready for it. 

Yeah. Makes sense.

 So from there, I don't remember the month and year, but I want to say it was a little before 2020 or early 2020 is when I did my second egg retrieval. 

We had a decent amount of eggs. I can't remember how many are embryos. I want to say we had five ish four or five. Unfortunately all of those came back positive. For the gene,  then we had, we had to wait a little bit because of COVID and you know, the, the world was on fire. So then third egg retrieval, my body of course started doing some really wonky things and what was supposed to be a really, really like successful, seamless egg retrieval turned into kind of a big deal.

We were only able to harvest two eggs. But then it turned into two embryos. So I was like, okay, that's really good. That doesn't always happen. Yeah. They made it through the, you know, the two week cycle, they were graded high. And then once those were tested, those came back unfortunately positive as well. 

Oh man. Okay. 

Yeah. So I talked to my doctor. He was, he's truly the most brilliant kind man I've ever known. His name's Brian, Dr. Brian Kaplan at fertility centers of Illinois. I love him to pieces. 

I've heard amazing things about him. I'm at fertility centers of Illinois too, but I see Dr. Rogers. But I'm Kaplan. I always hear I always hear good things. Yeah. 

Kaplan. I cannot say enough of like, I genuinely think he's populated 80 percent of the Midwest. Like the man,  he's miraculous. But so I talked to him, he personally called me. Once we received the results for the two last embryos, which you typically don't get,  and when he called, I knew it wasn't great or it was either gonna be amazing or not great.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one of those, he explained to me that they were both positive and he does not want to do any more egg retrievals on me and I.  Basically it was like, Oh, hard. No, we're doing more. I don't know what you're talking about. And he was, he was really frank with me and said, you know what this, the, your second egg retrieval, we had, I, um, what is it called?

Hyperstimulated. Oh yeah. Stimulated or hyperstimulated. So it wasn't great, but it was fine. I mean,  no one wants to go through it. I had a couple shots of antibiotics. I had a shot of a painkiller. I was uncomfortable, but I made it through. I just kept thinking. Yeah. His babies. Then my second, I guess he said my third one, I was having issues to the point where they could have punctured my colon, my intestines.

He said, we're not doing it anymore. And I said, well, what if we did it at the hospital? And he said, we'd have to have a team. Like we can't do this. Um, he said, there comes a point of, I understand you want a family, but if you're not safe, you're still not going to have a family.  So.  We went back to square one.

I didn't know what I was going to do. And he said, just digest this. Let's talk in a couple of days. So when we spoke the following time, he said, I really think looking into an egg donor is your smartest choice right now. He said, you will still use your husband's sperm.  Babies will be biologically his, but also there'll be yours too.

That doesn't mean that we're not their mother. It was a whole Mind game that I had to kind of hurdle. 

Yeah. What a mental shift and just. From my personal experience It is so hard to hear something even when it's  factual or what's best for you when it's on I'm just gonna say somebody else's terms like you didn't decide like, all right I'm not gonna do another retrieval like when someone else is like definitely suggesting that you know, they didn't they don't think that's best it's It's hard. It's hard to hear. 

Yes. You hit the nail on the head. That's exactly it. It's someone else's idea of what's right for your body and you think, you know, different, you know, but unfortunately we only know we know and you have to swallow that pill. And it came to the point of my husband was really supportive and he said, you know what?

You've come this far. To keep our future babies safe.  Let's not even think about using the embryos that are positive.  Because we donated them to FCI to  actually look into and study.  But they still had them on. I hate saying it on ice. Yeah, no, it's true. Yeah.  So I just, for a moment was like, do we just use those do in Mike was like, you can't, I mean, we can, but also don't go back on what your mission was.

Yeah. So I, once I wrapped my head around it within, I'd say a week, I was like, all right, let's do this. We are looking for egg donors. It's going to be amazing. We're doing this right. And. Yeah, it was the best thing I did. 

That is so amazing. And like, what a high, like intense emotional time. It's, I know it's, it's so hard to be able to like see, especially when you're in multiple rounds of IVF and you spent like the previous.

couple years, like all for the good of this, this one goal of growing your family and having healthy children.  But when you're doing things like constantly back to back, at least from my experience, when I was going through IUIs and IVF and just like plowing through, I was like, I can do anything. Let's give it another go.

Like we got it. Yes, it is like you feel because you always feel and at least for me, like an IVF, you always just feel so close. It's like you, even when something doesn't work, it's like you figured out another piece of the puzzle. So you feel closer to like getting it right. Um, and it sometimes it just, it does, it takes somebody kind of a little more zoomed out to. 

Make you see the bigger picture and it's really awesome that your husband was able to do that as well to remind you guys like why what you've done and how far you've come.  But I love that. You were like, all right, I digested it and let's, let's do this. Like, that's exactly how I felt when, you know, I heard that I shouldn't carry a pregnancy on my own and I gave it a minute.

And then I was like, all right. Surrogacy, like I'm all in, let's on to the next thing. Let's figure it out. So 

you need to let yourself digest it. I think it's so important because, you know, we haven't gone through the surrogacy, because I was able to carry, but at the end of the day, a hurdle is a hurdle when you're trying to have a family.

And I always let myself say, okay, I'm going to give myself now my, I'm an anxious mess half of my day. So I can't  it's like calm person, but. I really in situations like this, I said, okay, I'm giving myself the weekend to just mope and be grouchy or cry or be sad or do whatever I want. Right. Then once the day I hit the mark, let's say it was Monday.

I was like, all right, we're done. Like you can think about it, but you, the longer you sit and do this,  the longer it's going to be till you find your family. And that's what we always call it. We're finding a family. 

I love that. I love that. And I think that's amazing advice for anybody listening because I didn't always follow that advice of like sitting in your feelings and just pausing for a moment to like digest it all.

I think that is so, so important in making like the best decisions for you.  It's easy to keep going, but if you're not going to, like, handle how you're feeling about things, it's going to make everything a little more difficult. So I really like that advice. Like, set a timeline, just sulk and just chill and do whatever you need to do to kind of just wrap your head around it.

But like, have a timeline so you can keep moving towards your goals. I love that. That's great advice. Okay. So, now you're all in with an egg donor. Yes. This is something I don't know a whole lot about. So what does that process look like? How do you go about finding an egg donor that's right for you?

It is wild. I'm such a nosy person. So like, I want to know everything about everyone. So you essentially a link and it's imagine a dating site, like imagine going on like match. com or like  or something. And you see all these profiles. That's exactly what this is. It was fascinating. Like I, I mean, there were women that I knew I wasn't going to pick just solely because they weren't like a match with me, but I was reading profiles like, Oh my God, you went where to school.

You did. It was  so cool to see these women.  And just like them giving up such a piece of themselves. And when we found our donor, we ended up liking this one donor a lot.  And for whatever reason, our timelines weren't working out. So when we saw our second donor, it was. It felt serendipitous because her timeline was great.

Dr. Kaplan called her, what did he call her? The golden goose, because I think her last egg retrieval for her, her egg retrieval for us, I think she had 22 eggs. Like a girl like protect her ovaries at all costs. Like she  believable. So when we found her, it was just her background. Her family, her health, just you look at everything.

And even you go like aunts and uncles and grandparents and great grandparents, siblings. I mean, you go from mental health to physical health, to GPAs, to what are you doing your free time? Like it's truly like a dating site, like a, you know, and I don't mean to downplay it, but it really is like, cause you're learning so much about this person before they know about you.

Yeah. No, I think that's a really good comparison because I can, I can picture that. I, that makes total sense to me. I know you said it's interesting and I would find it so fascinating as well, looking at everybody's profile.   Was it overwhelming or was it kind of one of those things where it's like the ones that stood out to you,  you felt it,  like with the donors that you went with, like, was it stressful or was it simple and apparent when you came across? Who you were looking for. 

It was in the beginning when I was just being nosy and looking through them, I did feel kind of stressed out, but that's when I was like, okay, you're looking at, I'm making this number up 500 right now, you know, darn well that these 500 women aren't all not all going to match up with you.

So once I kind of wrapped my mind around that within like a couple of days, exactly what you said, once you see someone, it's like, okay, so you'd like flag people and you'd have like a. I'll within this site that they sent you, or this link that they sent you.  And then once we had, I think we narrowed it down to like six women and we just kept kind of going over those few profiles for a couple of days.

And then we would say, okay, donor ABC, you know, maybe not what's right for us. And then we got down to our top three and that's when we sent everything over to the, egg donor coordinator at FCI. 

Oh, nice. Okay. So all of this was through your fertility clinics. 

Yes, it  started to be 

okay. 

We're getting, I don't remember why we ended up switching, but then we went to a company that they work with hand in hand.

It's called ARR. I wish I could tell you what it stood for. I completely forgot. So 

they are based in Chicago, but I know they do work all over the country and they work  like  each other's right arm. So. FCI and ARR. So we ended up finding our donor through ARR. And then once we found the donor, the representative at ARR and FCI coordinated and made my life so easy. I mean, there was really nothing I had to do other than them saying, Hey, sign this.

Hey, you have to talk to a lawyer. Hey, pay this. And it felt very transactional, but we kept reminding ourselves and we kept looking back at the pictures of our donor. I think there were like seven to 10 pictures in her profile. And just like reading about her, like it felt very personal at that point.

Once it started feeling like a little too black and white transactional is when we were like, okay, this is for the greater good. And then that's kind of, we found her and she's remarkable. 

That's awesome. Wow. And you know, I'm sure it was just  like a sigh of relief. Like you said, how they were handling everything after everything you've been through and having you to be the one to like, do all these agritifles and all the things, and then just have someone like hold your hands and just like put all the pieces together how do I felt?

Like such a relief. And  totally relatable with,  like my surrogacy journey, because before we finally met our match and really started diving into like the transfer and everything, it, it felt same, very transactional for a little while, you know, it's just, you know, this money goes here, this lawyer handles this and, you know, there's just all these things.

But bringing it back to the person  you have to remind yourself, like, holy cow, this person is like changing our life and allowing us to grow our family.  I'm so happy that there's people out there that are donating their eggs and using their bodies to help other people. It's amazing. 

It's the most selfless act you can do. Truly. Like I know that they are getting paid. However, it's not an easy job. It's not this like, Oh, here's a check. Good for you. It's just, it's so beautifully selfless and. So yeah, and I think a lot of people that need to utilize whether it's sperm donors, egg donors, surrogates, whatever it is to grow their family.

Like a lot of times you're going into it knowing that like what you've been through and you're like, wow, like I know it's not like an easy task. It seems easy. But  again, they're, they're going through IVF too. They're, they're, you know, exactly right. It's a lot. 

Yeah, you're 100 percent right.

So after you found your donor,  did everything move pretty quickly from there as far as a transplant? 

Yeah, everything moved once everything was solidified. It seemed like once we had the conversation with our lawyers and we had to, you know, go through all the contracts and everything.  Once those were signed by both parties, it felt like we blinked and we were at egg retrieval day and She again, golden goose, like Kaplan kept calling her, like, and he meant it like, he just meant it in the sweetest way.

And his nurse called me and was like, you have, it was either 22 or 23 eggs, like, Holy smokes.  And then from there, I think we, what did we end up getting? We ended up getting 10, very strong, viable embryos. Wow. Yeah. It was incredible. Like at that point I was like, Holy cow, our baby is in there. And if it's not, then I don't know what the heck I was going to do.

Like 10 strong. We've got this. And, we did our transfer. It was in. I think it was end of June of 21. Um, and Dr. Kaplan said, you know what? We've done this enough with you. Let's do two embryos. Let's just not waste time.  

And real quick,  so all these 10 embryos were those? Genetically tested 

no, they were not. Um, okay.  She went in before you become an egg donor, you have to do obscene amounts of workups to your blood, everything.  So to your blood work. So they tested her for everything. And she came back clean. So I know,  I even found her. So we knew darn well, like we were good.

And I wanted to chromosomally test these. But Dr. Capsulen actually said, you know what, I know there's a risk in anything we could be doing right now. He said, so I, I want to make that very clear. However,  for the grading of these embryos for how many women I know that have gotten pregnant from her,  I think he said her age and a few other things he said. Yeah. I'd be completely okay with not wasting time. All right, then let's just let go, let God and let's do this. 

That makes so much sense. I, I was not thinking about all the testing that obviously has to happen prior, and even to be an egg donor, you know, you have to be in good health and not have a lot of these things. So that makes so much sense. So then you transferred and, and you transferred two embryos then? I transferred two embryos. Okay. And how did that work out? 

It was, it felt different and not in this like harmonious, like, Oh my God, my heart's going to explode kind of way. Like I felt my body feeling physically different.

And I said, she has been, I was like, I know this is aggressive to say, but I'm pregnant. I can tell you I'm pregnant. And he kept saying, Yay. But stop saying that. And I just said, no, it just feels different. Like things are feeling different. You're feeling, you know, crampy or you're feeling this or you're feeling that.

So when I took my first blood test, I went home and just thought, Holy cow, I'm going to get a call. But when I did get that call that I was pregnant, I was so shocked because it just.  In my gut, in my heart, I knew it, but it just wasn't registering with my brain that it was here and I was pregnant and the number was through the roof.

And then my second blood test a week later, it was through the roof and the tech jokingly said to me, Oh, watch, it's going to be twins. And I thought, Oh, ha, ha, you're right. Well, then we went to.  Or excuse me, I just went to the ultrasound appointment because they weren't allowing any spouses in because of, um, right.

Yeah. And  it was definitely twins.  Holy cow. I, my jaw hit the floor, but they originally thought it was a possibility of triplets. So that made me. I was happy,  like a little scared, so when I went back a handful of days later, they confirmed it was definitely twins. 

Okay. So for those listening, so obviously with two embryos like that, so both embryos took,  but there is always that chance that like the embryo can split.

I know it's, I know it's low, but still, I think it's.  I don't, I can't remember if it's 1 percent or 3%, I don't know, but it's, it can happen. 

It's enough for it to happen. I mean, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, so I was pregnant and from that minute on it was game time. And now I have, you know, I know we can talk more, but we have 21 month old twins now.

Amazing. 

It was worth every. Unbelievably hard moment. And I like to remind myself of that when my toddlers are screaming in my face. Yeah,  

I literally have to do the same. I'm like, I worked so hard to have you. Like, this is what I wanted on those really hard days of motherhood. Yes, exactly.  Which is to be mentioned because there, I don't know if you've felt this way, but there are times when I'm like,  Especially when with my first, you know, after such a long journey and you bring home a baby, it's like you almost feel like you are expected to love every minute of it all the time because you work so hard and like,  should be so grateful to even have to be a mom. But for anyone listening, you need to know that it's, it's okay. No matter your journey, like everybody has their moments and motherhood isn't perfect and it's, and it's not easy. So, 

no, exactly. You're  110%. Right. You know, in the beginning, I just kept saying, no, this is what we prayed for. We have this, we have this. And I remember one day I just started crying to my husband and I was like, I don't have this, what's going on? And he said, it's okay. Like you're okay to cry. That does not mean you don't love them. That just means that it's really hard today. And yeah, you're being little monsters.

Like  they're supposed to be, you know what I mean? Like babies, infants, toddlers. That's how they're supposed to be. They're supposed to be these little selfish little people that love you so unconditionally. And that's, you know, 

Absolutely. And I, and I always have to remind myself too, that like, while I prepared for a very long time to become a mom, like to be pregnant, I should say nothing ever prepares.

You for actually being a mom. So it's like, you don't, even though the time was there, the dream was there for many, many years, like nobody knows what they're doing. And every day is different. So 

not at all. I have no, we wing it every day. And every day, my husband and I look at each other and like high five.

And right now, cause we're in the thick of toddler hood.  Hey, okay. We made it. Everyone's alive. They're asleep. We did it. We made it. 

We won today.  Oh my gosh. What a beautiful story though. Like, wow. That was, and that spanned over  five years. Wow. Yeah. When you talk about it and kind of revisit this whole story, does it feel like a lifetime ago or does it feel like yesterday?

Um, that's a really good question. It honestly feels like both  days when I think I don't remember a day not being a mom.  And then there are days where I think, holy cow, we were just in the thick of it. And now we have almost two year olds. So it's just, It's remarkable. It's remarkable what faith in science can do.

And I mean, I know everyone has their own belief system, but I truly leaned so hard on my faith throughout this. Without it, I personally don't think I would have been able to do it. 

I am the same way. It is very freeing to know that like, I'm not in charge of what's going to happen. Because you kind of get lost in that sometimes, especially with, you know, things like, IVF that are very scheduled and planned and you do have to make a lot of these decisions. It's it can get a little like muddled together if you don't stay strong in your faith and remember that like Even though this is the path you're taking you're not in control. So 

no, that's exactly right and it's I have a good girlfriend who's actually pregnant with her third right now, who has been through the trenches of IVF.

And for the longest time, she's pregnant with number three, but she had, she's had her two girls for a bit. And when I was trying to get pregnant, she would always say to me, God has a plan for you. And you'll understand your trials once you get to where you're supposed to get. And it was so comforting to hear, but it was also so frustrating to hear because I wanted to know what it would be.

And now the days where I genuinely take a step back and say, like, you have so much to be thankful for. Even in the craziest moments, I look at my kids and I say, Oh my God, this makes sense. This makes sense now because their names are Louie and Cora. If everything else worked out, there would be blessings there.

However, I firmly believe Louie and Cora were meant to be in this world and they just  needed, needed to have a little time before we found it. 

Exactly. Exactly. Oh, I love that so much. And that is great advice from your friend and for anyone listening and going through infertility. Like you said, the timing is weird.

I felt very similar in the fact that, when I look back at, videos or pictures I've taken during my time with IVF and when our fertility journey was just getting started, it feels literally like a lifetime ago. But then, at the same time, I don't remember a time when I wasn't trying to... Grow my family.

Like it just feels yesterday and constant. And, um, yeah. Oh my gosh. In motherhood and with your kids, I know people say this all the time, but time is such a thief. It just like zooms. The second your children are on earth, it just flies. And it is unreal to me how, how quickly it goes  

you're exactly right. And it's like, don't blink because if you blink hard enough, you're going to wake up in there. You know, I blinked in there.  Like how? Yeah, that is crazy. I didn't even realize they were that old. I'm like, I've lost track of time.

That's so,  Oh my gosh. Uh, well, I. Appreciate you sharing your story.  I've learned a lot about everything you've shared today, and it's definitely not a topic that I knew anything about before. So thank you. Is there anything that you might leave listeners with  piece of advice for someone who might be going through something similar? Well, actually, I should ask you, is this gene mutation?  Common or is it rare?  You know, if I remember a doctor once telling me that if you did not inherit it from a parent, you just developing it is so minute, it can happen, but it is a granule of sand.

Okay. However, if your parent does carry it, it's a 50, 50 chance. Now in my world, I'm very involved in. The breasty communities, which is, a nonprofit for women like me, bright pink is a non for profit who help women who are predisposed to this. So in my world, I'm hearing a lot more of it.

yeah, but I also think it's because  People are taking charge of their own health. So I think this has been very prevalent, just even given my family tree. It's been there, however, we didn't know the key that we had. So now that people are taking, being proactive with their health, you are hearing it a lot more, but it's because of the tools and science we have.

I firmly believe that. Yeah, that makes so much sense. So it sounds like, you know, the biggest takeaway for anyone listening is to really know your family's. Health and history. I mean, it could be such a big tool in your own health and personal journey. And especially when it comes to, creating the next generation, it's really important to know what your family history is and what might be passed down through the generations. That's so helpful. 

Exactly. Just stick with your gut, know what you're going to do, and don't be afraid to find answers out because it could be the key to saving your life. And you know, it was scary, but now I can look at my kids and say, I'm not going to come home with breast cancer one day. And I know my daughter will never have to deal with this when she's older or my son, even because I had an uncle who actually passed away from breast cancer. 

They will never need to deal with this. And the gene died with me. So look at it as your superpower, that you can change the course of your family, which is amazing. 

That is so amazing and I  can only, oh my gosh, believe like when your children are old enough to really understand like the sacrifice that you made for them and the generations to come, it is huge.

So you're just amazing for being so brave and, and for, stopping that with you.  

Thank you for saying that. You're so wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. 

tHank you for joining me on the podcast today. I am so glad we got to chat about this  learn more about your journey and I'm so happy that you have your beautiful children and I just really appreciate it.

Thank you. And thank you for having me. This is wonderful. And please feel free to tag or link my Instagram profile. I'm so happy to connect with anyone who ever has any questions or finds out they're positive and they want to vent or want to know resources or know someone who has this gene. I am always an open book and I am more than happy to be around for anyone.

Yeah, that's perfect. I will definitely link that in the show notes. So anyone who wants to reach out to you can use you as a resource for sure. Absolutely.

That's a wrap on today's episode. If you're loving the podcast, do me a favor, scroll down to the bottom of the show notes and click the link to support the production of the show. Consider skipping your coffee and putting it towards the Motherhood Intended podcast. I have so many amazing things in store for Season 3, but I need listener support to keep this podcast going.

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