The Mother Me Method: Transforming Postpartum Experiences

This episode features a conversation between Jacqueline, and guest Jess Hull, a former Facebook and Google executive who founded Mother Me, an app, online course, and support framework for successful women navigating postpartum. The core of the episode delves into the Mother Me Method, developed by Jess, based on the science of matrescence and incorporating global perspectives on postpartum support. Jacqueline and Jess emphasize the societal need to support mothers' well-being as substantially as the care provided to newborns, interspersing personal experiences with scientific research to underscore the pivotal role maternal health plays in both a mother and child's life. This episode also explores how the transition to parenthood affects relationships and how understanding and respecting each other's experiences can fortify marital bonds in challenging times.

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00:00 Welcome and the Joy of Spring

01:12 Embracing the Little Things in Life

01:26 The Journey to Motherhood and Mental Health

03:18 Introducing Jess Hall and the Mother Me Method

05:28 Deep Dive into Postpartum Experiences and Support

22:38 Exploring Matrescence: The Science of Becoming a Mother

28:28 Navigating Relationship Challenges in Parenthood

29:20 Personal Stories of Parenthood and Marriage

30:54 Addressing Resentment and Finding Solutions

34:36 Embracing Different Parenting Perspectives

37:09 Top Tips for Preparing for Postpartum

39:54 Fostering Appreciation and Connection in Relationships

44:34 The Importance of Physical Touch and Care

48:27 Introducing Mother Me: A Resource for New Moms

52:29 Connecting with Mother Me for Support

54:09 Closing Thoughts on Postpartum Education and Support

Transcript

Hey, it's Jacqueline. I am just in such a good mood today. I hope you're finding yourself in a good mood too. I think for me, it's, it's the weather. I mean, I know we have listeners all over the world. That's right. We have global listeners listening to this podcast, which is so crazy and cool that you can just hop on a mic and reach people all over the world. 

That being said, I'm in Chicagoland. And for us, May. is just beautiful. I'm just going to say it. I mean, spring has sprung. I love that the temperatures are warm, but still mild flowers are blooming. The grass is green. You can hear the neighbors cutting the grass. It's just, it gets you excited for summer.

That's around the corner. I just, I absolutely love it. And it puts me in such a good mood. It's kind of just this whole symbol of like refresh and it's motivating and I love it. So regardless of your weather today, I'm hoping that you can find a little piece of joy. If not the weather, maybe it's the cup of coffee in your hand or the thought of the plans you have this weekend, whatever it is, I hope you hold onto that joy and remember that it's like the little things can mean a lot.

So much. Speaking of the little things, there is something about having a newborn that truly makes you slow down and appreciate the everyday moments of life. It's something that I wish I would have put more into practice prior to having children.

You know, those years of struggling with infertility and going through fertility treatments and IVF and navigating loss. I wish I really would have just taken a step back. Some days got my head out of the hole, trying to conceive space and just take a look outside, take a walk, appreciate, And be grateful for the things that I do have around me.

I think your mindset can truly shape your journey to motherhood. I'm not saying that I believe that you can manifest a baby or anything like that, but I do think that positive thoughts and positive thinking and practicing daily gratitude can set you up for success just by being in a better. Mental health space.

So as I look at my newborn every day, I'm just amazed by every little thing. Of course I am amazed by the how she looks around the room and is just taking it all in. I'm amazed I just stare at her as she sleeps You know, it's had me looking at my boys and slowing down and playing with them and taking walks as a family 

So this was a bit of a tangent, but just a little reminder to appreciate the little things and just take it all in. And if you are struggling with infertility right now, try not to let it consume you. I know that's such a silly thing to say and it's easier said than done because trust me, I've been there, but it will do wonders for your mental health to just have a different goal, have something else outside of your fertility to focus on as you walk this path.

Because You never know how long it can be. I hope it's a short journey for you, but for me, it was like four years before I welcomed a baby into my arms and into our home, and I wish that I wasn't all consumed for those four years because it, I feel like it robbed me a little bit of experiences. It robbed me of joy. And, you know, We're all doing our best and I just, I don't want that for you. So take it for what it's worth. That's my tip for the day.

Okay. So in today's episode, you'll hear my interview with Jess Hall. Jess is a former Facebook and Google executive who founded mother me, which is an app online course and support framework for successful women who want to do more than just survive their postpartum.

The system she developed is called the Mother Me Method, and it's based on the science and data of matrescence, as well as incorporating global perspectives on how other countries and cultures support postpartum women.

As you know, I love to touch on topics that I don't think get enough of the spotlight, and I think postpartum is one of those things. My own personal journey this time around with surrogacy. It's been very interesting to have a newborn and not experience postpartum and not have those symptoms, but our dear surrogate has been on my mind.

And I'm so glad that our agency has been supporting her in the fourth trimester through all of her postpartum experiences. So I love that Jess created MotherMe. Jess approaches her work more from an academic standpoint versus a clinical perspective.

She has done extensive research on matrescence and maternal health and seeks practical solutions that can help busy women. Known for her enthusiasm, humor, and compelling speaking, Jess resonates with so many women because she combines her passion for sharing a data driven approach with her personal experiences and her ability to relate to the universal challenges and joys of motherhood.

In her research and in her experience, Jess often felt that moms and their well being were an afterthought. It's what motivated her to start her company and name it mother me as a call to action to recognize that moms need and deserve the same love and care we so instinctively give to our newborns.

I loved hearing from Jess and on this topic of postpartum, it's something that I definitely wish I knew more of at the start of my motherhood journey. So please listen up if you are currently pregnant.  You have a friend or a sister who's pregnant or recently postpartum, or if you are just out there hoping to be a mom one day, this is amazing information to have before even becoming pregnant. So you know how to take care of yourself in that fourth trimester. Take a listen.

Hi, Jess. Thanks for joining me on the podcast today. 

Thanks so much for having me. 

I am so excited to dive into the topic of postpartum. As you know, on this podcast, I love to have conversations that are You're not often seeing when you're scrolling your highlight reels on Instagram and all of that. I will say I'm seeing a lot more women,  thanks to people like you who are discussing postpartum and educating women on this topic.  When we chatted before this call, you know, I mentioned, I just, I knew nothing. I knew absolutely nothing about postpartum,  going into postpartum. Either of my pregnancies and, um, you know, you and I have this in common where  we have two children close together and it was just like a whirlwind. So to get started, tell me a little bit about yourself and your motherhood  kind of what led you into diving deeper into everything postpartum.  

Sure. Yeah. And even before I do that, I just want to say like, it is so common for women to feel unprepared for postpartum.  And the stat is actually 90 percent of women wish they knew more. So for anyone listening who can relate to both of us feeling like we wish we knew more, We are certainly not alone. That is the vast majority of women.  So I just want to normalize that we all need to learn more and be more prepared. And that's what we're here to help,  women do. 

So, a little bit about me. I have three kids, but my journey to motherhood, You know, I wasn't sure how many kids we were going to have, uh, before we had any, we said we wanted four and then the reality of two under two made us say we are absolutely done and never again.  

Yes. Relatable. I had the same feelings. 

Yep. And I, I think again, very common,  where. It's not the children. The children are the joy. They're the bright spot of it all. But it's everything surrounding motherhood and really the process of becoming a mother. At least in my circumstances, I really did not want to go through the, mental and physical aspects of pregnancy and postpartum again.

So that was what was really the underlying reason for me saying, nope, I'm done. And. You know, over time that started to change as we got out of the fog of having two under two and things started to stabilize a little bit, but I was still very hesitant to expand our family again. And my husband was really,  you know, Wanting to have more kids.

He comes from a larger family than I do. So he's like, we can do it. And I would say if you could carry the baby and you could do it all, yes, I would definitely want to do it. But it's a different perspective when you're the one physically, mentally, emotionally going through it. And it affects your career. It affects, you know, your life activities and choices. So it's a much bigger, um, Conversation.  And so we just approached it differently with a third where we would say, what would really need to be true in order for us to feel? Not only can we get through this experience, but can we actually enjoy it?

And can it be something that's really additive to our family rather than feeling like it's taking away our experience and our joy with our big kids or it's sidelining me, you know, personally, professionally, physically, mentally, emotionally, uh, it just felt like the stakes were so much higher and we were a lot more thoughtful.

Going into the conversation of a third. So that's really the catalyst to what motivated me to learn all about maternal health and in particular the postpartum experience and how I could optimize it really like coming from a tech background. That's what it is Yeah, looking at you know where we're seeing positive returns.

How can we do more of that? And I just   knowing that, you know, most of my friends felt the same way that I did, and I just really went down a multi year rabbit hole  about everything under the sun that I could find,  to see if I could make a better outcome for myself.  That's what gave me the confidence to try for the third.

And then once we found out we were pregnant with the third, um, I really got to put all of my research into practice and test out my theories. And I had such an incredible, experience, honestly, like with my third baby. And I just felt very bittersweet about it because I was like, God, I wish I had known this first too.

And like, would my journey have been different? Would my relationship be different? Would I be different? And I do think that, you know, how you experience motherhood, especially in those first few weeks, months, and years totally shapes you as a woman. So That's a very long answer. 

No, it is. I'm just like, I'm silent because I am just like taking it all in only because it is so, so relatable. I mean, I feel like I was blindsided by it all. You know, I just had this image of you get pregnant and then you're like, baby's home and it's happy like the only thing that was really on my radar was like Okay, I know I have to recut like I have like six weeks and then I see the doctor and then that's that and then You know everyone said i'll be really tired because you're up a lot with the newborn Like that's that was the extent I was not prepared for My mind, body and soul to completely transform and my marriage to completely transform as well.

I was, I mean, it rocked us same thing at two under two and, and that was coming off of years of infertility and loss. And then two under two, I was, I had no clue what was in store for postpartum. And like you,  I think back and I feel so guilty. You know, I think about how much. Better of a mom, I think I could have been, I could have been  a better version of myself.

Had I had the knowledge of what that looked like postpartum and, really just like the expectations, like set the appropriate expectations of what that looks like. Because  it shouldn't be something that is like, okay, we got to get through this because that's how I felt the second time around.

I was like, okay, with our second baby, I was like, all right, let's just buckle up. You know, I'll see you in two years when we get through this, this like tornado that's about to come through. And it's sad because we work so hard to have these kids and, it's supposed to be a joyful time. You know, you're growing your family and I know not everyone is blessed to do that. And so, yeah, having, having the knowledge to really just. Be prepared for that. Postpartum experience is so, so important. 

So many people are in that survival mode and we accept that survival is the goal and we don't even understand that it's possible to love and enjoy this time. So that's really what I'm hoping to change. And, you know, to the point of mom guilt, like, Release that because when we know better, we do better and guilt really does not serve any of us and it doesn't serve our children either. So I can relate absolutely to how you feel. And that's something that I've worked on myself as letting go of the times when I wish I knew more, but now that I do know more and I do better. Right. And that's all we can do. And that's what we'd say to our kids too, as they're learning things like, 

yeah. 

So I know that's a hard thing for moms, especially, because we care so deeply about how our children experience these early years and their whole lives.  But I think you're right. Like there's a complicated feeling where women who, you know, if you've struggled to conceive and bring a child into the world where you feel so grateful for having this baby, you This baby and God willing, healthy baby that you sort of dismiss your own feelings in the process.

And, you know, moms matter too. And that's really what, you know, I'm all about in my company is, is putting the emphasis on taking care of the mom because there's incredible resources already. And there's such knowledge passed down around taking care of babies. But as a society, we've really lost that. The knowledge around what moms really need. And when I think of my mom's experience in postpartum, you know, she had no support and no, I mean, she was back to work four days after I was born. 

Yeah. That's 

You know, it's, it's really, we've, we've got a long way to go, but we are making progress in recognizing that women are going through these monumental changes and they're not just physical, they're mentally,  emotionally, nutritionally, hormonally, neurologically, so. You know, it really, I find it just so fascinating. 

 I love, I love learning about it and I  I'm like you, I will do a deep dive into something to just learn more about, especially if it's related to myself, because I was always striving to be a better version of myself. And so the more you can understand these things, the better.

Version of yourself. You can be. And the first thing I was thinking about when you were just talking is like, it's so, it seems so simple. Like we should have this natural emphasis on the mom, but we just don't, like you said, it's come a long way, but it's like anything you have to, I just thought of being on an airplane cause I was traveling recently.

And it's like, you have to put your oxygen mask on first and then your children, like you have to be your best. How can you take care of this baby? If you don't even understand what's going on with yourself and giving yourself grace in that postpartum. Right. Period, you know, whether it months, years to come. Um,  yeah, it's, it's crazy. 

The oxygen mask thing is something that is used a lot in this space and,  people sort of say like, oh yeah, you know, like, obviously like that makes sense. And what I have loved is looking into the research that actually proves that. So there was a study done in the UK where they looked at, uh, I think it was 13, 000 families in the year 2000 and 2001.

And they followed them through the children's,  14th, 15th birthdays. And they found that the moms who took better care of themselves and had better, attitudes towards wellness and their own emotional health, the children  better. Um, who had moms with that outlook had two X, the mental stability and wellness.

Whereas the impact of the father's outlook on their wellness had no impact  on the, on the child's wellbeing mentally. So  it's fascinating  and the quote from the lead researcher was like begrudgingly acknowledging the results. He's a man. And he said like, You know, I'll send you the quote afterwards, but it was something like, um, you know, despite what we may hope to be true, there is one factor alone that has the greatest impact on a child's well being. And that is the mothers. So, you know, it gives me chills because it's validating these sort of,  myths or old wives tales or whatever it may be with actual data. And for me personally, I found that to be empowering to finally stand up for what I felt I deserved, but I was having trouble. Acknowledging that.

And then when I found the numbers, it kind of gave me more confidence in saying, wait a minute, I need support because I know that this matters and this is not a just problem. This is like all women are going through this. 

Yes. Oh, I love that so much facts. I love, I love the science behind it. Um, yes, these are things that we need to, and I know that this is, What you're doing in your company, which is so, so needed,  are the things that we need to be sharing with people because it's one thing for women to just be like, again, we know we're deserving of certain things. And once we learn it, but like, this is science, like, this is fact based that the mother's mental health and just well being is so, so impactful. And I, oh, my gosh, it's so. I just find that fascinating. 

Yeah. And we know like for, for a lot of moms, myself included, you know, you can feel selfish taking care of yourself and you feel like. Or I, I should say, I felt that, being somebody who sacrificed a lot for my family, I felt that was almost a sign of pride for me where I was like, look what I'm giving up in order for my children or my marriage or my, you know, family to be better. And that notion of needing to sacrifice so much and how much you sacrifice makes you 

Yeah.

It's really a very American perspective. And It's hard to let go of that, but in reality, we need to reclaim the importance of taking care of ourselves and reframe it as something that's not selfish, but actually a gift to our family, a gift to our children, a gift to our relationship. When we are in a better place, we are able to show up better for those we love. So that's been a journey for me personally, and something that I think many women feel similarly about sacrifice and selfishness around taking care of themselves. 

Yeah, I mean, I know I can relate to that. And even before becoming a mom, you know, I'm thinking back to my like IVF journey,  and a lot of it is just the way we are wording things to online, you know, there was like an IVF warriors, like a hashtag that like flies around the internet. And it's like, But I'm not like I should have taken better care of myself. It's not something I had to power through and be strong constantly because that's how I felt starting from the second we were trying to have kids. And I'm like, I'm just sacrificing my health, my job, like everything to try and get pregnant.

And then I've had very complicated pregnancies. And so I just like kept powering through. And so postpartum was just like, I did it. I better suck it up. Like baby's here. I did it and I will be fine. And that is not the mentality to have. And, and. We deserve more as women and I know this now as I look back at my journey and I'm at a place where I Myself am years postpartum and this journey now I'm looking at it kind of from the outside with our surrogate carrying our third baby and it's been very eye opening to me to see how I'm treating her and taking care of her and thinking about her and everything She's doing and I'm like, why wasn't I that way with myself when I was going through it?

Like why wasn't I that? Kind and nurturing and caring when I was, you know, powering through my pregnancies and postpartum. So it's an interesting perspective when you can take a step back, which is why it's so important to have these conversations. So moms can be prepared for postpartum before they get to that, as opposed to like reflecting back. So I'm so glad we're diving into this today. 

Yes. And I think you're right that the perception of struggle equating to strength Is something as a society that we confuse often  and just getting through something. And I, I, again, I felt this way myself too. So, you know, it's like, you think that the harder it is that somehow the more noble or better you are for having gone through all of these hard things and.

It is admirable when we've gone through hard things and we should be proud of ourselves, but that doesn't mean that we are so,  egotistical that we can't accept help to do hard things. And I have reframed how I view strength as, you know, understanding my own needs and how to get them. And that's what makes me strong being strong to me is not doing everything by myself.

It's not being perfect all the time. It's not being super mom, because that in my view does not exist. So  I try to think of myself as like, how would I want my children to, you know, To navigate something that they're struggling with, and if they were just struggling in silence, that would break my heart.

Yeah, 

so similar to what you're saying about how you're viewing your surrogate and you're like, I didn't even know to show myself that same love and kindness.  You know, it's, it's something I think that we're all navigating in our own way. But conversations like this and the work you're doing on this podcast is really critical in moving the conversation forward in a way where women hopefully feel empowered to get the help that they need rather than viewing it as a sign of weakness or,  a sign of pride where like, I just can't get help because why do I even need help? Like you are not a failure if you need help. In fact, you're actually showing your strength and showing your sign of growth by acknowledging that you want and need help. 

Absolutely. And you will be a better mom and a better woman for doing that. You know, I used to think that the more I can carry, the better I am being for my kids. And it's just not true. You can't do it all. And you will be your best mom self. If you,  be proud in asking for help and, and knowing when you need it and taking care of yourself for sure. So one of the things that we had talked about, and this is kind of, I guess I'm kind of going in reverse here, but I just.

didn't know anything about it.  There's a very obvious shift when you first become a mom, when you find out you're pregnant, you know, from the inside out, everything changes. I remember it was on my mind constantly. I just had this different feeling and I wasn't fully prepared for it. It was amazing, but it was like an immediate shift. So. Talk to me a little bit about what that looks like, what that is, because I didn't even know  there was a word for it. 

Yes. So matrescence is the science of becoming a mother. And oftentimes it's explained similar to adolescence, which is the process that every child goes through when they become an adult.

So matrescence is the process every woman goes through When she becomes a mother and similarly to adolescence, you know, your whole identity changes and you're going through massive physical changes as well. Growth spurts, you're going through hormonal changes. You're going through neurological changes, how you regulate your emotions as well as your emotional maturity.

All of those things go through an evolution that happens over multiple years. So, matrescence, again, same thing, a woman's body changes, her hormones change, her neurological structure changes. Emotional regulation changes, your value systems change. Your whole identity is reframed and it happens over multiple years.

So some of the research suggests that it's a seven year transformation. Some of it is. a lifetime. So it really is a massive, massive identity change. And what I've found to be very interesting about matrescence is that despite a woman's individual circumstances in which she becomes a mother, there are universal changes that happen to every single person. woman. So even if we are different backgrounds, we have different family makeups, we have different number of Children. Matress is a process that begins every single time you become a mother. And it looks very different for us as individuals. But again, these changes are universal. I mean, I just love, love the topic.

That's why I needed you to share, because I knew I did not know this. And it's just so interesting to me. And just, I mean, I know going through it that, you know, I have changed as a mom and everyone tells you like, Oh, motherhood will change you and this, but I didn't really understand. I don't understand to the extent and what that would mean for me.

And definitely no one prepares you for, you know, with a woman going through all those changes physically, mentally, emotionally, like you just said, you know,  I guess I was just, it rocked my marriage, right? I'm a different person and  our partners aren't necessarily having those same changes. Yes. Yes. They become a father, but they're not going through it physically. Physically and scientifically. So that was a big like shake for me in motherhood was just how that would affect my marriage. 

Right. And it's something that's just really beginning to be studied. So Amy Taylor cabas is one of like the leading, Activists and thought leaders in the mattress and space. And I've actually had the chance to chat with her and I was like starstruck. And I was like, she's incredible. She's an Australian woman who wrote a beautiful book called mama rising.  And I told her, I'm like, I bought the book and the audio book. Cause I just wanted to hear her read 

it all in. Yeah.

It's incredibly,  fact based, but also very comforting as well. So.  The idea of  how men change through the process of becoming fathers is something that is also in its very early days of being studied. And. You know, I think that's equally as important as the research being done to understand, motherhood and its impact on a woman.

So, you know, culturally we know like the 20th century was the century of understanding the child. And it was like, yeah, you know, the development of children's brains and that really introduced a whole new wave of parenting. Whereas before parenting really was not even a verb. It was just like, you are a parent and you help your child survive.

Right.

And now parenting, as we know, is something that's so much more involved. And there's all of these theories on how to parent in a way that helps children be their best selves and develop fully. So the same wave is now happening to parenthood where we're understanding more of the adult perspective in the love and care that we need to show parents and in particularly mothers.

Yeah. 

So it's really, I mean, again, I find it just so fascinating and 

yeah, it's interesting.

 Yeah. We're all sort of like live case studies. 

Yeah. 

Happening. I never thought about like that, how, you know, like the, the different generations of just even how parenthood has changed. I mean, I know it, you know, and I hear like older generations, like,  I'm just going to say making fun of like, Oh, gentle parenting and this and that. And you guys do too much and whatever. And it's just like, no, but like there's science to back it up. And there are studies that show, you know, if we do X, Y, and Z as parents and how we can help our kids and their brain development and, and all these things, so that's so, so amazing that now, you know, we're seeing a shift and the focus is going on to parents. And that's, I just find that fascinating as well. 

Yeah, no. And I think that as a society, we will all be better served when we understand these things. And,  the money that's going towards funding this research, you know, it's small right now in the scheme of some of the more pressing, you know, medical issues.

But,  I do think there's more awareness around the topic and you see, you know, You know, more men talking about,  parental leave. And we mentioned this a little bit when we chatted before, but looking at how other countries and cultures approach this topic as well. So in Sweden, there's actually like almost public shame for men who don't take their paternity leave. And you contrast that in the U S where we don't even have paid federal leave for women. So it's like, 

yeah, 

the spectrum, 

different worlds. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Totally different worlds. And, you mentioned like, you know, marriage struggling. So we know that 70 percent of couples report a decline in relationship satisfaction after becoming parents. And when I say that shocks me, it's because I think that number is too low. 

Yeah. 

It has to be everybody. Right. 

Right. Yeah. I don't, I don't think it's always like. Right. Talked about because again, it's supposed to be this like blissful time of going into parenthood. So I don't think that's it's usually conversations that I'm hearing, you know, amongst friends at first, but now, you know, I'm a more seasoned mom and I have friends who have multiple kids and We're very open about our relationships and just talking about parenting and marriage and everything. And, it does that number of 70%. It should shock me, but I'm like, no, but like, everybody, everyone.  Yeah. Yeah. Yes.  

And I think that for me and my personal experience where I. Realized a big shift in my marriage was I had all of this resentment towards my husband for the physical things that I had to go through. So like a very small example of it is like, we went to so many weddings while I was pregnant and obviously a wedding when you're pregnant, it's a different experience, right?  And I remember when I was pregnant with my second and I had hyperemesis, I was so sick and I was at the wedding throwing up and everybody thought I had just had too much to drink because it was so early on in my pregnancy, I really wasn't showing too much.  You know, it's little things like that where like how you're perceived and rather than people being like, Oh my God, are you okay? It's like, Oh, she's had too much. It's like, no, I am struggling here.

I had resentment as well. Uh, just with the fact that how little I felt my husband's life changed. Like I felt  because of struggling with infertility and you know, I felt  guilty because  I know it's not my fault, but like, The way my body works.  We needed interventions. We needed to do X, Y, and Z. So for that part of it, I've just felt guilty.

But then as the years went on and I'm, you know, we have one child, we have two, they're getting older. I'm like, no, but my world has been turned upside down. And I kind of feel like yours hasn't changed that much. And that's the one thing that I always struggled with was just the situation seeming not.

Absolutely. No. And, and professionally as well, when you go back to work, um, you know, the doctors or anytime there was, um, my child was sick at daycare, they'd call me, I'd have to call the doctor, do the doctor's appointment. And what I realized was happening was, you know, there were so much, my husband really didn't have insight into my world.

And because it was new to me to live through it, I struggled to explain to him what I was feeling on the inside. And, you know, it's like, before we had children, when people would try to explain what motherhood was like, you just really couldn't grasp it until you live through it. So then I realized like, why am I expecting him to look at me? And understand what I'm feeling on the inside when quite honestly, I don't even know what I'm feeling on the inside. 

That's a good point.

Yeah. And so I realized like some of the resentment I had towards him was really not personal for him. It was really from the feeling of being overwhelmed internally and feeling, That just wasn't fair that all of this was falling on me.

So, you know, we made some changes. Like I would put down on the daycare forms, like call dad first, you know, like I traveled a lot for work. And so oftentimes I was out of state when I got those calls.  And,  You know, little things like that, but then also bigger things where,  you know, how you look is not how you feel.

And because I was so sick in my second pregnancy, I did not really have baby weight to lose. And, you know, people would be like, you look amazing. And I'd be like, I feel amazing. Terrible. Yeah. And that was hard for him to understand too, that so much of the healing that I was going through physically, you know, it was not visible to anyone.

And having him acknowledge that and recognize, you know, what I was going through did so much good to our relationship and our understanding of each other. And then open up the conversation for me to also ask how he was feeling about a lot of the changes in our lives.  You know, resentment, unfortunately, is one of the most common things that couples experience in early parenthood and In my program, I made like Mad Libs to help couples talk through like the 10 most common sources of frustration and resentment and conflict.  And it's all inspired by the Gottman Institute, which is like the founding research body on, marriage and parenthood. So, you know, I've had fun doing it with my husband.  It's helped us a lot to understand each other and, and really what we need versus, , What we think the other person needs. Yeah, that is really great advice.

I'm like, can apply that to my life just today, even not just directly postpartum. You know, it's, it's not personal to my husband. And I feel this mostly, like you mentioned, when I am feeling overwhelmed, like I can't pinpoint, like, Why am I why am I feeling this way? What is bothering me? What how am I feeling emotionally mentally physically like it's just something's off. I don't know what it is And so it feels like he's fine. Why is he fine?  And again, these are assumptions because I know once you open up these conversations with with your partner with your husband It's you know on the outside just looking at him, too.

I'm like, okay, he goes to work. He travels He looks like he's having a great day. I'm here. I'm here Running the house, running around, trying to work and the kids, like all, I'm all over the place. But from his perspective, you know, he has his own weight that he's carrying. And, it's goes both ways. You know, what you see on the outside is not what's on the inside. So that that's really important to remember for sure. 

Yeah. And like, I also. I sort of naively thought with parenthood that we would experience all of it the same way. And if you sort of draw an analogy to like planning a wedding or any other big life moments that you go through together, you're experiencing the same event, but how you experience it is very different.

And once I accepted that not only it is different, but that it should be different and that those different experiences actually. Work together to create a bigger potentially better experience for our family that was really empowering for me Because you know when our kids are sick for me, I'm up all night with them I am worried about them in a way that he just is not and I would be frustrated with him.

Like how do you not?  Worry when they have fevers and he's like, well, we give them the medicine and the fever goes down. And I'm like, yeah, but what if it doesn't? You know? So yeah. Different approaches. And again, originally I would be frustrated, like, why don't we approach this the same way? And then I shifted my view of that as like, actually, this is good.

We're balancing each other. We're supporting each other. I let go of trying to get us to agree on everything and rather just hear each other. Like we don't need a consensus here. We don't need to agree. That's not the goal.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Relatable. I was just thinking how sometimes when I went through the same thing. I was like trying to basically make my husband be exactly like me. I'm like, no, but this is why we should be doing this. This is what, like, why aren't you stressed right now? Like, we're trying to figure out X, Y, and Z, and I'm like, oh, gosh, thank God, because we would be drowning if we were both the same person on all of these things. Balance is exactly, uh, Exactly what it is. And, I think the second that you can realize that as parents, you're gonna come at it from different perspectives and you're gonna see it differently and experience it differently.  It's very freeing because you don't feel I, the second I could let go of that. I felt like. More in control, oddly, even though I was like letting that go.  

Absolutely. No, that is totally reframing it for, you know, a positive outcome, recognizing what you can control versus saying, you know what, I'm acknowledging that this is something I can't control and that's actually freeing, and empowering. So that's awesome. 

Yeah, so there are so many things I feel like you can do to get ready for postpartum just with the little glimpses that you've given me. But, speaking of relationships, I'm going to assume is one of the top three, like, tips you would give for getting ready for postpartum. What would those three be? Like, the top three things that someone, maybe they're pregnant now, or just anyone who's trying to get pregnant just so they're aware and prepared.  

Yes, when it comes to relationship prep, you know, one of the things I do with the women that I work with is ask them to,  fill out almost like a little workbook that we have that is all about the things that bring them as individuals, joy, peace, comfort, relaxation, whatever it may be.

And then do the same exercise with their partner. Because we need to focus on us as individuals first and foremost, because that determines how we're showing up in the relationship and showing up as parents. So first, focus on yourselves. What do you enjoy? What brings you peace, comfort, you know, laughter, whatever it is, and then do the same exercise as a couple.

So one of the things like I love going to the movies. My husband does not really love going to the movies. He falls asleep a lot.  So you know, something that I've been doing is going to the movies with girlfriends and seeing those cheesy movies that we like.  So that's no longer like a couple activity where I'd be like, Oh, I want to go on a date and go to the movies.

So first understanding what brings you comfort and joy and peace and knowing that as you're going through the early postpartum stage, some of those things may not be feasible for you. So what can you do in the little window of time when you're bringing home the baby that you love? It's not a substitute for those things, but is another option.

That's maybe a temporary thing that you like to do. And then focusing on that enjoyment in prioritizing, giving each other that space and that freedom to find those moments as individuals. And then if you can. Finding a babysitter or a relative or somebody who can help you with your children, who you trust, obviously with the newborn so that you as a couple can have those moments of connection.

And if that's not possible to have a babysitter or a relative, cause it's not for everyone. Um,  you know, what are times during the day if you have big kids, like I know you do and they're at school and you just have the baby home with you. Like, can you do little things like we would go out to lunch together or we would, if the baby was napping, we'd be like, you know what, let's just like watch a daytime movie or whatever it is that gives you that chance to reconnect.

And that's so important because you're going through, as we know, a whirlwind experience. And oftentimes we forget to prioritize ourselves and our relationship in that time. Another tip is something that is like an appreciation exercise. So again, in the chaos, in the emotional sort of snappiness that can come from being sleep deprived.

Or. You know, hungry or whatever it may be overwhelmed. If your house is a mess, which mine pretty much always is, um,  recognizing little things about each other and. again, everybody who's probably hearing this is like, yeah, no, duh. That's like, of course you want to do that. But what, again, the Gottman Institute shows is like, we all have this concept of like a love bank and you want to be making regular deposits into this love bank so that it's growing over time.

It's like compound interest, right? Like the more you do, the better it becomes. It has like a snowball effect. So, a way to make this part of your routine is adding this moment of appreciation to something you already do every day. So for example, brushing your teeth, my husband and I usually wake up at different times in the morning, but at night we're usually getting ready for bed around the same time.

So habit stacking this moment of appreciation,  whether it's something silly like, Oh, I liked your hair today. Or I'm really proud of you for. Waking up and going to the gym or, you know, thank you for making the kids lunches, whatever it is, adding that moment of appreciation to be part of your routine.

So it's something that you would never not do, just like you would never not brush your teeth at night. You know, like that is equally as important to your emotional health as brushing your teeth is, you know, to your. 

Yeah.  Uh, I love that. You know, it would be a new habit, but it's something easy to implement, I guess, and it would have such a big impact. I love that. I, that's a great idea. 

Yeah. Or like, even for couples who are on very different schedules, like if you set an alarm on your phone, and you just, you know, Send a text, like when that alarm goes off, like, here's my moment of appreciation to my partner. I'm going to text them and it can be something very silly and very easy.

Like they do not need to be profound love letters. All day. Yeah.  And I think little things, at least to me personally, little things to me mean more than big verbose. Lovey dovey language. Like I'd rather you say, like, I see you getting up and, you know, going to the gym and I am so proud of you. Cause I know how hard that is for you. You're not a morning person, you know, like  I feel very seen and appreciated in that moment. 

Yeah, that same, that would mean, that would mean a lot to me, just the little things and, and knowing this going into motherhood and, and becoming parents and making that a priority, I can only imagine it would be just make just such a difference because I'm just thinking back to like those first few months and years of parenthood and, you know, you get mixed up in the day to day and you find your routines you know, we go to bed at certain times. Yeah.  I do dishes. He does laundry. You know, we have these routines and they become so mundane and, almost like we're taking each other for granted a little bit. Like, and it's so simple to be like, Hey, like, I really appreciate you unloading the dishwasher earlier.

That was so helpful. Like, if I heard that at like one little thing a day, that would, That would boost my mood, my confidence, like, and yeah, we're doing that to each other. We're constantly lifting each other up. I think that is so important to keep in mind going into parenthood to  not let parenthood sweep you up  and take you in. Remember about your marriage  and your relationship. 

Yeah. And I think, you know, we very often get into this rhythm with our partners where, you know, you have your chores, I have my chores. And like, I see language a lot on Instagram that about being roommates. And I think that's such a funny. You know, attitude towards it. And I think for many people, that's the reality too. So  there's nothing wrong with being in your roommate stage, but even if you think like when I, my roommates are some of my best friends, right? So that doesn't mean even if you're not like in a romantic mood all the time that you don't still like laugh together or appreciate what the other people are doing to contribute to your, you know, quad or wherever, right.

So, um, Um, you know, taking those moments, I think, like you said, even to a friend, to anybody, if somebody just recognizes the little things you do, you feel so seen. And then you're like, Oh, okay. Like, yeah, it's no big deal. I'm doing the dishwasher. It took me like five minutes. Like, yeah, it just makes you approach that task with a little more enjoyment or levity.

Yeah.

And I would say the third sort of tip for postpartum relationship, um,  is like, don't forget how important physical touch is. And I'm not talking about romantic physical touch, but there's actually again, data that shows you, we need eight hugs a day. And You know, before I saw that I could say like, I probably wasn't hugging my husband eight times a day.

Yeah.

I mean, my children, absolutely, but probably not. And so just like knowing that number, it's sort of like once you hear that you're supposed to drink X amount of ounces of water or whatever it is, it gives you a benchmark and you're not always going to hit it and that's okay. But it just gives you more of a starting point to say, like before, did I even hug him once a day?

I don't know. and I personally feel a lot of comfort from,  physical touch and hugs or holding hands or just like a rub on the back, or I'd say like kiss my forehead, you know, whatever type of physical connection comforts you, ask for it. And also ask your partner what they prefer to and make a point to have those again, moments of connection that in the chaos of newborn life, like, of course you have time to give a hug, right? Like, 

yeah, 

that's not that big of a deal. It's just something you don't think about. 

Yeah, it's so eye opening. Like, that's, it's a good analogy. Like, with the water, too, it's like, once you figure out how much you should be drinking a day, it's like, oh my gosh, have I been dehydrated for decades? Like, and now I'm thinking, just hearing this hug number, I'm like, the first thing I thought of, I was like, did I, have I hugged my husband today yet?

Like, it's, it's something so, and it's different for everyone, right? So I think that's good advice to talk to your husband and, and tell them like what physical touches comforting to you. Cause I know I've gone in seasons too, where I'm like,  the kids are always touching you or if you have a newborn and you're constantly holding a baby and you're, you know, that's one thing. And so your partner might assume like you don't want to be touched, but it's, it's different. Like it's not comforting. You're the one comforting your baby and your kids all the time. So. 

Right. 

From your spouse can mean a lot, 

totally. And again, like they've studied the effects of like the hormone releases that happen when you have that physical touch and physical connection. So we know that that's helping alleviate our mood,  and having us feel,  more oxytocin and feel like better, calmer, happier.

So again, like for me, I don't know why I always like need the numbers before I can like do the thing, but I'm like, wait, there's proof. I know that this works and this has a positive effect on me. And, to your point about being overstimulated, that's totally  like a great call out for postpartum days and Again, it looks different for everyone.

Like sometimes I would ask my husband when I was really feeling like low, like you just bring me a hot cup of tea. Like just the simple gesture of a hot cup of tea being brought to me. I know I make it, but it, it just feels so nice to be cared for. And I think. In this postpartum stage, moms really do need to be cocooned in that same loving care as our newborns get.

So that can be physical touch,  praise, nourishing foods, whatever it is that we give our babies, like we deserve ourselves and we need it sometimes to come from other people too, and that's okay.  

Absolutely. I hope everyone listening to this who is either pregnant right now or plans to be pregnant just heard that because you need to be taken care of as well.

That is so, so important. And 1 thing that I just wish I had known going through it all. So,  that is so important. That is so important. I'm so glad we are getting it out there to the universe today.  Tell me about mother me. You have just dropped so much knowledge in this episode and I could pick your brain on everything.

And I love all the data that you're able to share. That is so fascinating to me. tell me about mother me and What all that entails and what really led you to take the leap to put that out into the world? 

Absolutely. So, um, even like, honestly, with the name mother, me, I have like, I'm like, mother is a verb and it's to protect somebody from danger or show them love and kindness.

So naming it mother, me, For me was like a call to action to women to say, like, I deserve that same love, kindness, and protection,  that we give our children. So that is really like the whole mission of my company. And what I created was something that I wish I had, and it is online,  videos and little modules on all of these different topics that.

Ladder up to matrescence. So it's what happens to your brain. What happens to your body? What happens to your emotions and your relationships and your identity as you're becoming a mother?  And that's part one right like the what but then Um, what's to me equally as important is what can I then do? What actions can I take?

So having this insight is great, but I actually want to change outcomes and change the postpartum experience. So rather than being overwhelmed or anxious or resentful, what things do we know backed by data? Can women do so that they feel calm, supported, appreciated, and hopefully empowered as they become mothers.

And, \ that's really what I have created. It's like an online video module system that you, I also have an app, um, in the app store. So you can watch the videos when you're on the go.  And then for women who want to go even deeper and create,  or have more personalized support. I do one on one sessions.

So many of the women that I work with are, from the tech world or have their own business. And they are like, I don't want to struggle through this. I want to actually enjoy this. I don't know how many kids I'm going to have, but I don't want to waste a moment of it feeling like overwhelmed, unprepared, resentful.

And.  I've actually been surprised at how much the one on one business has taken off. And I've realized like women really do want and need this support and,  um, you know, they want it customized to them. Many women have family situations with their family of origin that they're navigating complicated relationships in maybe their mother's approach this time in their lives and getting the support they need is not.

Coming necessarily from the family of origin. So this idea of like a virtual village,  is something that a lot of women want. And I'm just happy to provide a piece of it and give people confidence that they're going through this massive life change, but it doesn't need to be something you dread and it doesn't need to be something you're Feeling like completely out of control because there's a lot of factors that we all can control and  ultimately that's what leads to having a more peaceful postpartum. 

That is amazing. That's an incredible resource and something that is definitely needed.  Just the idea of a community in this virtual village and, you know, I was thinking about how when we were talking about the different generations, like you can't just always, you can't really turn to your mom and ask about this stuff or understand it because she didn't understand it.

They didn't have all this information about postpartum and what that looks like. And,  so having. This as a resource is just amazing because every woman enjoy their postpartum experience. You shouldn't just have to, like, get through it and, like, try and survive and get to the next step.  It should be enjoyable.

So I love that so, so much. What's the best way to connect with you? Where can they find you if someone is looking for this type of support and really wanting to dive in? I know myself, I'm not even like in the postpartum. I am not planning to be pregnant again, but I am just so intrigued by all the science behind it.

So where can anyone, connect with you? Yes. So I am on Instagram. My handle is mother me.  io and you can send me a DM,  or I have a bunch of free resources linked on there as well. Like phrases to reduce resentment, postpartum checklist, all that good stuff. And then my website is mother me. io. So you can book a call with me.

I do a free consults for anyone who wants to sort of just pick my brain and we map out a rough postpartum plan and where you need support in specific areas. And then if you want to go deeper, of course you can buy, the online course and get the app and we can do more one on one sessions, but mother me. io  and that's the same as my Instagram. 

Awesome. So many options to dive in. I love that. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. This has been so insightful and I am just so, so happy that we are talking about a topic that I feel needs so much more attention.  Thank you for putting all this information and all these resources out into the world for women who definitely deserve it.

Absolutely. Well, thanks for having me. It's been so great chatting with you and you are also doing incredible work, especially highlighting the unique circumstances for women going through fertility challenges. So I'm just grateful that there's so much support out there for women in general,  and love having these conversations and connecting.

Thanks. Thanks for being here.

 Thanks for tuning in today. I think the topic of postpartum is so, so important. And in general, I think women need to be taught so much more about our bodies. There are so many things that I am just now learning about my body in my thirties. And I think the best thing we can do is keep talking about these topics, talking about pregnancy, talking about our fertility, Our hormones, all of these things we should be taught at a younger age.

I want to do better for the next generation and help educate everybody now so we can educate our daughters  on everything they need to know about their health, becoming a mom, and more.

There's a link in the show notes to connect with Jess so you can check out her courses, her app, and everything she has to offer surrounding postpartum support. And if you can, do me a favor, review the podcast if you haven't already. There's also a link in the show notes to support the production of this show. I am currently a one woman podcaster, but over the summer I will be bringing on an assistant, an editor, and so much more so I can connect with even more listeners and give you all the resources that you deserve.

To follow along on my personal journey, get to know me better, be sure to check out Instagram and give me a follow at motherhood underscore intended. And if you haven't yet, join us in the motherhood intended community group on Facebook. It's a closed group for podcast listeners. 

There are over 500 women in the group who are trying to become moms, navigating infertility, seasoned mothers. It is such a diverse group of women and a great place to ask questions and lean on each other. And as I've said before, nobody should have to go through this alone. I've got some giveaways coming up as well that is going to be exclusive to those community members. So head to Facebook, search Motherhood Intended Community, and join us today.

I hope you have a peaceful and happy weekend, and you will hear from me again next week.