Stillbirth, IVF, Asherman Syndrome, and Surrogacy: Jessie's Story

Jacqueline is joined by Jessie Jaskulsky, the founder of Surrogacy Simplified. Jessie shares her personal story of loss, Asherman syndrome, IVF, and surrogacy. Her company, Surrogacy Simplified, is changing the surrogacy experienced for Intended Parents with their passion of helping navigate the complexities of surrogacy with compassion, expertise, and personalized care.

*Trigger warning* Premature delivery, miscarriage, and stillbirth are discussed.

In this episode...

• Jacqueline and Jessie discover the parallels of their fertility stories
• Miscarriage, stillbirth, and the complications to follow
• Asherman syndrome explained
• IVF and genetic testing of embryos
• Surrogacy; agency vs independent, sibling journey
• What is Surrogacy Simplified and how can they help you?

Grab my *FREE* Month-by-Month Roadmap to Your Fertility Success!

•  Connect with Jessie: Surrogacy Simplified website and Instagram
•  Leave a review for the podcast
•  Join the Motherhood Intended Community
•  Follow @motherhood_intended on Instagram
•  Reach out to Jacqueline via e-mail: hello@motherhoodintended.com

If you're interested in helping give the absolute greatest gift to deserving parents, learn more about becoming a surrogate (and earn up to $650 just for taking the first few simple steps!): share.conceiveabilities.com/hello12

#FertilityFact source found here.

Transcript

Hey, it's Jacqueline. Thanks for joining me for another episode of Motherhood Intended. Before I dive into things today, I wanted to put my free resource on your radar.  There's a link in the show notes to grab it, but I have created a month by month roadmap to your fertility success.

If you're struggling to get pregnant, this is your opportunity to take control of the future of your fertility. So every path will look different, but this month by month guide is here to help you feel calm and confident on your journey to baby. You don't have to navigate this alone. One of the things that stands out in my trying to conceive journey, even long before we even realized we needed fertility help, 

Is that every month of trying and every month of getting a negative pregnancy test felt very stressful over time. It definitely took a toll on my mental and physical health, and I just don't think it has to be that way. It doesn't matter what your journey to motherhood looks like.

Everybody deserves to feel calm and confident and look back on this time as a really special moment in your life. So this roadmap is outlined month to month, starting with January, going all the way to December. But it's not about New Year's resolutions, or like stressful to dos. It's simply a helping hand with ideas to increase your chances of fertility success.

So my January on the guide can be your November, or whatever month you start to utilize this resource. This roadmap is not meant to replace medical advice, so definitely always reach out to your doctor with questions and concerns, but I'm rooting for you and I really hope this can bring you some peace on your journey to baby.

Okay. So as I mentioned last week, season two of the podcast is wrapping up. I honestly cannot believe it. Like, how are we at the end of this year? I don't even know time flies.  It's it's wild. But that being said, after today's episode, there's two episodes left and I have. So much in store for you in season three, which is going to be premiering January 11th, 2024.

In this first year of the motherhood intended podcast, I am a one woman show.  I script the show. I produce the show. I edit the podcast. I. Interview the guests, I find the guests, I mark it, all the things, that's me. And luckily, I really, really enjoy this, you guys. It has been so much fun connecting with all of you each week, and I absolutely love the relationships I've formed by doing this podcast, and everything I've learned personally, and just, as I've said before, podcasting has been so healing for me,  And kind of unpacking my own fertility journey as it continues.

So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here. If you're new, I hope you'll continue to listen, go back to the first few episodes of the podcast. Take the month and a half break in between seasons to catch up if you need to. Because I have a lot of great content coming for you in the new year.

That being said, if you're loving what you're listening to each week, consider supporting the show in the new year. I would love to streamline some of these day to day tasks by hiring an editor, hiring an assistant, and really putting some more processes in place for this podcast so I can spend more time sourcing the best content for you.

You can go to buymeacoffee. com slash motherhood intended to support the show, or of course there's a link in the show notes, but anything you can donate to the production of this podcast is helpful and goes directly into everything I'm creating for you. So thanks in advance. The podcast needs you. I appreciate you listening. And there's so much more to come.

 Okay. So today's fertility fact is related to surrogacy, which is fitting for my guests today on the show. So a lot of people ask, like, why do people use a surrogate? Some people assume that. You know, based on like celebrity culture, it kind of feels like, oh, it's just something, you know, rich people do when they don't want to carry a pregnancy themselves.

They don't want to be pregnant or their career or this and that. There are so many misconceptions around surrogacy. It's crazy. So I thought I'd let you in on some facts  about some of the reasons why people might use a surrogate. So one of the reasons of course is infertility. It's one of the main reasons why would be parents opt for surrogacy.

There are countless reasons a couple or an individual may struggle with  infertility issues ranging from low sperm count or endometriosis, pelvic inflammatory disease, or like me, incompetent cervix and a slew of other things. Um, a woman that has previously had surgery, maybe for an ectopic pregnancy could also face infertility issues.

There are so many infertility factors that can contribute to the decision of using a surrogate to have a baby. Another obvious one might be same sex couples. They're unable to obviously conceive a child naturally and often turn to surrogate mothers to help them in their journey to parenthood. 

Another reason for using a surrogate would be single individuals. A single woman with an inability to conceive or carry a baby to full term will require the help of a surrogate  . Alternatively, a single man will require a surrogate as well, regardless of his fertility status. Age also plays a big role in a woman's ability to conceive and carry a child.

By the age of 40, the likelihood of getting pregnant drops significantly, though it does still happen. There is exceptions to all the rules. Some women can conceive at this age with the use of fertility treatments, some without. However, a majority of women 40 or older will likely need to use a surrogate at this age.

So this next reason is not one that I personally thought about or wasn't on my radar, but um, medication could be a reason why someone might use a surrogate to carry a pregnancy. The list of drugs and treatments that are off limits during pregnancy are considerably long. And while it's nice to think that someone would be able to hold off on their medication for nine months, it's just not always an option when suffering with chronic medical conditions.

So depending on someone's situation, it might make more sense for somebody else to carry the pregnancy. Another reason is when adoption is not an alternative. thE surrogacy process can definitely take a while, but it's usually less lengthy than adoption. Some future parents choose to use a surrogate instead of going through adoption  for this reason, and others have longed for a child that is blood related to them, which may be a reason for them to choose to go the surrogacy route over adoption.

It's definitely a personal preference and very situational for us. We went the surrogacy route because we had already created embryos before even realizing that surrogacy would be something that we would need to grow our family. So that is where we started before diving into adoption.

Physical problems is a big one for somebody needing surrogacy. A hysterectomy or a congenital uterine abnormality may make pregnancy or birth impossible for some women. A hysterectomy clearly makes conceiving a child an impossibility, But some women don't find out about problems with their uterus until later in life, typically after trying to get pregnant for a while with no success.

So at this point, they might choose to reach out to a surrogate. In addition,  physical and emotional trauma surrounding a past pregnancy or birth of a child may deter a woman from pursuing pregnancy. This is a situation where a surrogate would be chosen to move forward with having their baby. So some women go through so much during birth that it causes post traumatic stress disorder, making pregnancy or birth an emotional rollercoaster not worth riding.

Others are simply unable to conceive due to a physical trauma that occurred during the pregnancy or birth of their previous. child. For me, it was a little bit of both. I didn't realize that my emotional trauma  played such a big role in our decision for surrogacy, but it did. I mean, aside from our doctors telling me Based on your past trauma and your pregnancies, it was just not safe for me to carry another pregnancy with the risk, high risk, of uterine rupture and, of course, losing another child.

Um, but I really didn't even think about it at the time until we were in motion with surrogacy. All the emotional trauma. That I would have experienced and I don't think I would have been able to do it just based off of all of that. So having somebody else carry the pregnancy is just such a safer option for someone in this position, whether it's physically or mentally, for the best.

Being unable to carry full term. So, a struggle many women face is the ability to get pregnant with ease, but then are unable to carry to full term. So, conception may happen quickly and frequently, but the fetus may not develop past a certain point. There are many reasons why this may happen, some of which are treatable and some that are not.

For non treatable cases,  These women may turn to a surrogate to carry their child to term. And lastly, sometimes personal decisions are just kind of why someone would choose to use a surrogate. Like I mentioned at the beginning, you know, there are the misconceptions that you think everyone, especially celebrities, is just doing this out of ease and convenience and because they can. 

But as you just heard, there are so many different reasons why somebody would choose to use a surrogate. But some people, it might not be infertility.  

It might be that some women choose not to carry their own child to be able to continue their career  It doesn't matter the reason Surrogates are very special people put on this earth to help others grow their family And as you can imagine I for one I'm so so grateful that These women exist.

So today's guest on the podcast is Jessie and she is the founder of Surrogacy Simplified. They are a trusted and compassionate consulting firm dedicated to guiding intended parents on their transformative journey to parenthood. They understand and have walked the walk, the profound desire to start or expand your family.

With their expertise, unwavering support, and personalized approach, they're here to take the complications out of the surrogacy process, allowing you to truly enjoy each step towards parenthood. Their clients receive the highest level of care, confidentiality, and guidance for each step of the process.

They provide comprehensive consulting services and personal concierge support, ensuring your surrogacy experience is seamless, empowering, and filled with heartfelt moments. Circusy Simplified will handle all the logistics while you focus on the joy of building your family through the amazing gift of Circusy.

Here's my conversation with Jessie. Take a listen..

Hi, Jesse. Welcome to the podcast. 

Hi. Thanks for having me. 

I'm so excited to chat today. Um, as we were just talking about before I hit record, you know, while our stories are very different, we also have a lot in common and I'm just so glad to be put in touch with you,  and the amazing things that you're doing.

So let's start from the beginning. Did you always know that you wanted to be a mom? When did you and your husband get married? Was this on your radar right away? Or is this kind of something that was in the plan down the line? 

Yes. I always wanted to be a mom. Um, my husband and I were on the same page about it. We got married in 2014 and  we knew we wanted like two to three years to ourselves to travel a little bit. And then shortly after that, we decided to start trying.

That's awesome. I think a lot of people have that thought of like, okay, let's enjoy a marriage and then we'll kind of take those steps.

And we did the same thing. We waited at like a year, year and a half before trying, and in hindsight, I'm sure maybe you agree that you're probably glad that you had that time with the journeys that were to come. 

Oh, absolutely.  

So what did your trying to conceive journey look like to start?

Initially, I was incredibly lucky.  We got pregnant the first try, which is rare and just, we were so blessed. And the pregnancy was relatively uncomplicated up until my loss, which was  a couple days shy of 22 weeks. 

Okay.  You said it was very, like, uncomplicated. Was there any kind of warning signs, or what kind of led you to that position? 

No warning signs at all. Um, the pregnancy was going so smooth that my husband and I went to On a Baby Moon in Arizona. I'm from Maryland, so this was, you know, felt like across the country, and Um, we had actually been going to a bunch of different restaurants. I thought I was having some stomach pain from trying a lot of new food, but it had turned out I was in full blown labor. And similar to your story, um, with having incompetent cervix, which I did not know at the time. 

Yeah, that's crazy. And,  it's so funny that you said you guys were on a baby moon in. Arizona because we did the same thing with my last pregnancy. We were in Arizona and I mean, I felt fine that trip, but it was only within a couple of weeks that I had similar, very quick symptoms and  everything up until that point was fine.

So that's, that's crazy. And so. You're in Arizona. Did you go home, see your doctor? How did that all play out? 

Yeah, we didn't have any time.  I started bleeding. I had really bad pain. We had to get to the closest hospital.  And as soon as I got there, they rushed me to triage.

And basically they were, it was like a race to try to stop my contractions and  um, going into labor, but unfortunately, we, we wanted to have an amniocentesis and get the results and figure out what was going on, but they weren't able to stop the labor. 

Okay.  So you didn't know at this point it was incompetent cervix? 

We found that after the delivery, when we were asking questions, what happened, they said it could be preterm labor, it could be incompetent cervix, and they were like, we can't really 100 percent say one way or the other if it's a combination of the both. Did you go into labor so then your cervix started opening?

Or did you, you know, like, what came first, chicken or the egg? 

 Absolutely. That was, that was our case for sure with our twins. We, they didn't know, like, were you, was it just a complicated pregnancy or did you just start contracting and, and it was, yeah, it's kind of, at that point we didn't really know the situation.

So you were 22 weeks describe, I mean, again, I've been in this position a little bit different, but describe how you're feeling. In that hospital, you know, in Arizona at that time

it was complete shock. Um, we like I there's some of it. I can't really remember because it was just like so traumatizing.

And like, I wish I had a better memory of some of the events. Um, but there's like certain like pictures almost in my mind that I can remember. It's like one of them is like the nurse when she first saw me in triage. And  my husband, Michael was like, you could just tell when you saw her face like this is not stomach pain, 

something really bad's going on. So like that's like a really like moment that stuck out of like, just like horror. Like I had no idea what was going to happen. And then, um, just waiting for like, once I knew he was coming, just like that waiting period of like going through labor and the contractions and just like this like fear of unknown, like what was going to happen.

It was just, I would say really just like scary and terrifying. And then once he was delivered, just like this total devastation, Because it was just such a easy pregnancy until that point, it was just a total surprise. 

Yeah. I mean, no one can prepare you for that moment. It's just, especially with your first pregnancy. I mean, it's relatable when you said, you know, I just thought it was something I ate. I didn't know they were contractions. Like, being pregnant for the first time, like, you don't know what that feels like. You know, you can imagine, but you don't, you don't know what to expect when you're in that position until you're actually in it.

Right. Yeah, when someone said that I was having contractions, I was like, Oh,  yeah, 

you're like, that's what that is. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. I mean, I get it. That's how I felt as well. I'm, I'm so sorry for your loss. It is. No one can prepare you for a moment like that for sure.  So when you went back, was there testing done when you were, I'm assuming back home with your doctor.

So what happened was I ended up, um, hemorrhaging a couple weeks later. And I went back to the doctor, and in hindsight, I kind of wish they would have ultrasounded me right when I came back from my trip, that's something that's definitely a frustration on my end, um, but they found that I had retained placenta, and then I needed an A& C.

Okay, These are all things, I, I have so many things in hindsight, I'm like, man, I wish I would have had them do this, or knew to ask this, and it's just like, It's, it sucks, but it's like you don't know what you don't know. 

Exactly, and I had really done a deep dive into the research, and they should have ultrasound me, but there's like the standard of care, and it's so rare that that can happen, that apparently that was a normal practice to not ultrasound right away, had I would have advocated for it. I'm sure they would have done it. Yeah. But I always wonder, like, if that would have protected me from all of the subsequent secondary infertility that was to follow. 

Yeah. So going forward, how... I mean, did you take time? Did you guys decide to try again? What did your trying to conceive journey look like following your loss?

We had a grief counselor to process some of the immediate, you know, just like disbelief and, you know, the loss. And then we assumed we would just start trying right away. So at this time I had no idea that that emergency DNC had any impact on my body. I thought that we would get pregnant and then maybe I would have a more complicated pregnancy since I had the The loss, I thought maybe I would get a surplus the next time.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Go on bed rest and get, you know, and have a somewhat normal pregnancy, just perhaps high risk. 

Yeah. It's crazy what we, what we don't know. And I don't know. I've. I had to have, I think one or definitely one, I can't remember one or two DNCs as well with complications after following a delivery and like the placenta and things like that, but I absolutely had no idea the kind of effect that that can have on you. I feel like they don't feel like it's not like information that's given. It's just like, all right, we did it and good luck to you. 

Yeah. I remember, um, I went to a high risk doctor because again, I didn't know I was going to have any complications and I mean, complications with getting pregnant. Right. And I just wanted to know like what the plan would be if I were to get pregnant again.

Again, in regards to the sarcoge and the doctor goes, the high risk doctor, she says, keep an eye on your periods. If they get light, you might have developed scarring in your uterus, Asherman syndrome from the retained placenta. She's like, it's a very rare chance of it happening, which was like resonating when I was listening to your podcast, when you're like, when there's a low chance of something happening, it's probably going to happen to me.

Yeah. Even then I was, yeah, I was still in denial. That was like, really going to be my situation. Sure enough, I didn't notice my periods getting lighter. And I wasn't getting pregnant naturally at this point. So we, we did the, like, we went to the gynecologist who then needed me to go to the fertility clinic to get a, um, the, I think it was a hysterosalpenogram. I'm going to butcher this. 

Where they kind of like shoot the dye and can... Yes. Get a picture of your, yeah. Okay.

I couldn't do it because of the scarring.  So the gynecologist to remove the scarring. So it's like you, you go and then each test is a certain day of your cycle. So the process is just so dragged out to get your answers because you get one answer, you need to wait a couple of weeks and also book with the doctor and their availability as well.

Right. Oh my goodness. Yeah. That'll definitely drag things out when you're trying to lock down one piece of The puzzle every single month okay. Wow.  So then it was Asherman syndrome that was concluded with the scarring. Is that what your doctor concluded? Okay. 

And I did have the scarring removed, but then my lining became incredibly thin.  

Is that from removing the scarring? Is that like an effect of that or how does that? Okay. 

So it's part of my Asherman syndrome. So they removed the scarring. 

And we had done a couple IUIs, one resulted in a chemical and the other two failed, and we were moving to IVF, and then  no one really said go to the surrogacy route, but my husband and I were like, okay, we had a late loss at 22 weeks, and now you have thin lining, so there's getting pregnant and staying pregnant, and the doctors But Felt like I was in this gray area.

So they didn't really give a black and white answer. And really we just, my husband and I went with our gut on what we thought would be the safest bet for us to have a child. 

Which I think is solid advice all around is just to always go with your gut. I mean, doctors are going to give you the information, but only at the day, like you got to do what's best for you.  In my experience, it's been one of those things where surrogacy is something you kind of have to research on your own, um, especially when you're in that gray area of like, I could carry the pregnancy, but like, there's just so many unknowns, right? Like, for your health. So I, I totally get that for sure. How did IVF go for you? What did that look like? 

I was very lucky with IVF. My problem necessarily wasn't like egg, you know, like have harvesting eggs  and the egg retrievals and embryos. It was more just like, you know, implantation and then carrying. So I was very fortunate with that.

And,  we elected to test our embryos because  our research had shown us that when you're matching a lot of the gestational carriers are no term, which is that their prerogative, but we wanted to decrease any risks  any of any embryo abnormalities, like to minimize, you know. Having to approach some of those controversial topics later down the road.

Definitely.  That is something that like, not everyone thinks about going into IVF. Uh, we, we definitely didn't, we didn't test not knowing we were going to end up using a surrogate, but so we didn't test and I wish we would have. Cause I, I'm like, man, we got lucky transferring our two embryos for our sons and they were healthy, but.

Testing with our embryos, you know, half of them were not viable for pregnancy, which could have resulted in,  more miscarriages or,  just things that would just add to the whole puzzle. So I think that that's always a smart move, in my opinion, is to  do the genetic testing. So did you have to do multiple rounds of IVF to achieve the number of embryos you wanted or was it just the one time?

I ultimately, like, um, had, I did 2 rounds, but I did 1 round to have my 1st daughter,  to go the surrogacy route. And then I did another round because when we were, after the time we had my daughter, we only had 1 embryo left. And our research had told us that, um, a lot of the gestational carriers,  they You're not going to never get picked, but it decreases your chances when you have one embryo because it's a lot of pressure on the  GC, um, to make sure it works.

And then if it doesn't, the process is so delayed while you create more embryos. So we elected the second time, like before starting our sibling journey to, yeah.  Go through IVF again. 

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. I never really thought about that until we started kind of researching our own journey and  at that point we had two healthy embryos, one was labeled mosaic, and I, I saw that  on a lot of the requirements of like at least two healthy embryos and I was like, oh, okay,  I just never thought about it like that, like that is a lot of pressure or  it'd be a whole new journey then if it didn't work out, and then you'd have to make embryos. That makes so much sense now. So, okay, you and your husband decided that surrogacy was going to be the route for you.  I know there's many different ways to dive into surrogacy, but how did you guys kind of jump into that?

We found an agency through a beach town that we went to a lot in the summer. Um, a lot of the guys there used an agency to have their kids, and so they, like, there was one agency in particular that came highly recommended. So when we met with the agency owner, she was lovely and, um, the wait time wasn't too long, so we signed with her and then, like, we, as we were, you know, going through the motions of signing with the agency, like, I felt like the deep dive really began and figuring out all of the components of surrogacy and just how much there is to know and all of the moving pieces and the big details and the little details.

Oh, my gosh. Yes. I feel that to my core. I did not really know what we were getting into until we were like in it. And there are so many moving parts for sure. It's, it's like a full time job. Even if you go even if you're working with an agency, there's just so much you don't know until you're like in that position. Yeah, which is so crazy.  So what year is this now that  you've signed with an agency? 

Let me think.  It was 20. It was like the end of 2018.

Got it. Okay. Yeah, I was asking because I'm curious if it was like I assumed it was like pre pandemic or post pandemic and  I was just thinking how long your was your wait time. At 

my wait time wasn't so I ended up to have my oldest daughter, we ended up having two GCs because are the first GC we matched within two months.  She was wonderful. She ended up miscarrying our embryo due to a rare complication from the IVF medication.

So again, that's Small chance of something happening happened to us. And then we had to break our match. It was mutual because of the, this, you know, like her health, like she needed to  take care of her health because the IVF meds brought up having pancreatitis. 

Oh, wow.  I didn't know that could happen. So was this her first time being a,  gestational carrier then? 

Yes.

Was it a long time before being rematched? 

So we signed with the agency, we were, we matched two months later, and then we went through the whole process with her, so the legal, the therapy, the psychologist, like the entire thing had the transfer, then the, you know, she miscarried,  then we were waiting to be rematched, and I became more active on Facebook, private Facebook groups.

And actually my GC Amber, who ended up carrying my daughter, messaged me and was like, you seem really nice. Like, cause I was on a lot of the Facebook groups wishing the other women good luck and lending an ear. And she just was like, I know you haven't asked for a GC, but the way you come across is just so kind. And are you still looking for somebody? And then from there I had asked her to apply to my agency since I'd already paid for the agency, but really I had found her on my own. 

Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. And wow. What a testament to just like, you know, we were talking about this before we recorded just the communities now on, Facebook and just social media in general, the surrogacy community is, is crazy.

It can be overwhelming.  I thought we were going to do an independent journey at first and I was like, We can find somebody, right? I'm social savvy. I'm I'm a good networker, but we just with two kids already at home for us. It was just it was a lot to take on. But how amazing  that you found her and was able to bring her on to your agency. That's fantastic. 

Yeah. 

So like I said,  I'm in the middle of my own surrogacy journey, and I would really love to hear your experience and how you were feeling during those months of your GC being pregnant and navigating that, especially after, you know, being pregnant yourself. How did you feel? 

I was like, So I felt differently for each journey, but for my first journey, it was, she did a really great job of including us. So she sent us pictures. We talked all the time. She, we FaceTime did appointments. So I felt a part of the process and I was just, I think a little bit relieved that I wasn't pregnant because I was so afraid of having another loss.

So I was anxious that I was hoping everything was going to work out in the end, but also I think, I wasn't. necessarily upset that I wasn't the one pregnant because I didn't feel as though I had the best odds of having a successful, you know, like a baby full term healthy child. 

I get that wholeheartedly.  It's surprising how you end up feeling or how you think you might feel, you know, leading up to a journey like this. And then once you're in it, I can speak for myself and agree that like, I, I kind of thought I'd have a hard time like watching somebody else be pregnant with our baby, but  no, it was, it's mostly just a feeling of relief and knowing that our baby is safe and that my body is not the best option.

And, um, there's just something so comforting about that, that makes it  so much easier, I guess, especially for, you know, for those who. Take the path of surrogacy and are coming from a place of a traumatic birth experience or a loss. Um, I think it kind of sits differently, the whole experience in itself.

Absolutely. Yeah. I just, at that point, I was just so desperate to be a mom. I wanted the safest route. To get there, 

right? Yeah, absolutely. And so was your surrogate nearby or out of state? The first 

she was in Kentucky and we are in Maryland. So, um, we flew and the flight was quick, but, um, we ended up having to drive our baby back because our surrogate delivered seven weeks early. So we had a little bit of a rollercoaster of an ending to our journey. 

So what caused her deliver early? 

She developed preeclampsia around 30 weeks. Um, and she went to the hospital. It was around New Year's Eve. And they ended up, um, just like releasing her and said, You have preeclampsia. Just like a modified house.

Like not house arrest, but  like,  you know, like, and, um, she just didn't feel like her swelling was improving. So a couple of days later she went back. And at that point we didn't know how long we had a feeling she could be there until the baby was born. So my husband, I packed our bags and we ended up being in Kentucky for a month.

Oh, wow. Wow. that's great that you were able to be there though. I can't imagine like knowing that she was struggling and could deliver and just being far away. That's great that you got to be there for her and her 

and her husband.  Similar to what you were saying when you were on bedrest, her husband had to take care of the kids. So she had three kids at home. So we wanted to make sure that we could take care of her in the hospital and give her husband that opportunity to still work and  take care of their family. 

Yeah. Oh my gosh, absolutely. That's so great that you got to be there. How long was she in the hospital then before delivering? Uh, about 10, a little less than two weeks. I want to say around 10 days. And we ended up delivering at 33 weeks. 

How did you feel at this point? I'm just going back to like with my son, you know, we were just so happy. After having a loss and even though he was born extremely early and it was a little scary, um, you know, the NICU can be a little overwhelming. Uh, I was just happy that, that he was here and it kind of put a different spin on things, kind of like how you said, like, I just want to be a mom and want it to happen safely. Was that kind of your feeling  in the NICU or what was that experience like for you? 

Well, the one thing that had scared me was that our, and I know you were on magnesium to RGC was on magnesium and they say when you deliver on magnesium, the baby might be sleeping. And so I was really scared that the, like that she wasn't going to come out and cry and that we wouldn't know. Um, You know, we just wouldn't know if, um, like everything was okay. And luckily, as soon as she came out, she was crying. We're like, Oh, God, thank God. But we weren't allowed to hold her until they had a value.

And yes, like you said, like, most people would probably be so upset that their child was in the NICU, but I was just like a static to be a mom and we had gotten the steroids. And I felt like that had a lot to with her lung development. And just, you know, we had a 2 week NICU stay, which I felt. Wasn't that bad considering how early she was. And yeah, we were just really grateful that she was here. 

That's amazing. And so she was able to come home like without any kind of, I know at 33 weeks. Um, well, I guess it depends on the situation, but she was feeding and breathing and  all that. That is amazing. That's 

yeah. It was such a miracle. 

Yeah. So did you guys then drive back right away? Did you stay local to Kentucky? This is top of mind for me as I'm like thinking about how this all works at delivery with a surrogate. 

Yeah. So she came from the NICU. So we were in the NICU for about two weeks and  my mother in law came into town to help us do the drive because I was, I slept in the NICU the night before she was getting released.

They do like this practice night because you're, they're medically fragile. So they want you to have like a night with the nurse can like help you care for your child before they release you. So I hadn't had any sleep and we had a eight hour drive. They didn't want her on a plane because she was, since she came so early. We left from the hospital.

Okay. Wow. That's smart to have help with the drive because I wouldn't have thought of that like, Oh, obviously like you're so tired. You've been 

right. It was like, I couldn't even function. Like I was so it was like an all nighter because there was all these different like noises. I wasn't expecting as a first time mom and plus knowing that she was a little more medically fragile. And yeah, I, we, there's just no way we could have done the drive home without help. 

Yeah, definitely.  And, and this might be specific to each hospital, but I'm curious, like, once the baby was born, like, were you in the same, like, recovery room as your surrogate? Did you guys have your own room with baby? What did that look like for you? 

So for my second journey we did, we had two rooms. Okay. We had a room for, um, our GC to recover and then our private room. We didn't get a private room this time because they had to take her immediately to the nicu. Oh, right.

So in the nicu, like we had, like, I don't if, if you remember like the curtain around us. So we had the privacy there and that was when I first did my skin to skin. But it wasn't like a traditional recovery room if it would've been like a Right. Okay. Uneven delivery. 

Yeah. Okay. That makes total sense. What an amazing story to your first daughter. That's awesome.  Obviously you then adjusted into parenthood. At what point did you start thinking about a sibling journey?  

We thought about it around her first birthday because we had known it took us four years, including our loss, including, you know, learning about my diagnosis to have our oldest.

We just were like, okay, if the worst case keeps happening and we have another Four years to go and setbacks like this will be a great time to try, but luckily we had really smooth sailing the second time around in our journey, like start to finish was probably about 18 months. 

That's awesome. And yeah, you're, you, you mentioned this earlier, but we really do have a lot of parallels in our stories because yeah, with our boys with, I mean, I was different because I was caring at that point, but with IVF, we, we just thought it might take a while.

So we were like, all right, let's add his 1st birthday. We're like, all right, let's try. And they're 20 months apart because it just, yeah, it was quick from there. and so, yeah.  You used a different surrogate with your second journey. Was this through your agency or did you end up going the independent route since you technically found your first surrogate on your own?

I went independent the second time. Um, this was now 2021, so the height of COVID and agencies were not quoting wait times. And I was like, I'm going to just try and if I can't find somebody, then I'll go back to an agency.  And I got so incredibly lucky as you mentioned, like, it's like a needle in a haystack sometimes finding people on Facebook groups and it was really just right place, right time that somebody saw my profile that it resonated with.

So aside from finding your story, which, yeah, that is amazing. And the wait times were crazy. We didn't sign with our agency until 2022. And it was still pretty long, you know, depending on the agency was coding up to like a year and a half to get matched 18 months. We, it took us 11 months. Which is why we actually, when the surrogacy route, probably sooner than we were prepared to, just to kind of get the ball rolling. 

But, you know, matching is, is a hard part, but there's so much to follow after you found your match. So how did you navigate all of that on your own with like legal? And did you kind of just take your first journey and try to apply it or what did that look? 

Yes, I did. And it was different. So I knew that the laws were going to be different, but I, it gave me kind of like a template of what to expect. So I knew I needed a psychologist for both of us. I knew I needed legal representation on both sides and to follow the legal representation for the babies being born. I'm setting up escrow and then having heard the health insurance reviewed. I just sort of managed all of this and it was definitely a second full time job. Like I was working full time and then in the evenings, it was like my second job. 

Oh my gosh, I believe it. I was going to ask if you were working full time at that point because it is. It takes a lot of hours and a lot of research for sure. That's incredible. And so I know you had used to mention that you had to do, you wanted to do another round of IVF. Were you doing it at this time as you're replicating Handling all this or did this happen prior?

It happened prior to matching because when I posted my profile, I wanted to be able to say like, I had five embryos. Right. Okay. To make us more appealing because again, it's, I don't want to say it's competitive cause it's, it's totally not, but like you are, you have a profile with like lots of other women and families out there. So you, you know, you want to have like a, something that's, you know, helps you stick out a little bit. 

Yeah, I think people forget that like those who aren't that familiar with surrogacy. It's not just like finding a surrogate like it's,  it's a mutual match and they're, you know, they're looking for a family that they want to help as well. So it's definitely a mutually beneficial relationship. It's not just like, oh, go find somebody like it's And it's not that easy. 

Right. And a lot of the agencies and, um, even matching privately, it's like the GC picks the intended parents instead of the other way around, really. 

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. Okay. Oh my goodness. So this, did it, once you got all of this lined up, did this second journey go as smoothly as the first or was it a lot more finagling with doing it on your own? 

I would say it went smoothly. It was a lot of work.  But in terms of the pregnancy itself, it went smoothly. She also developed preeclampsia, but she developed it with, she developed it at 34 weeks and we made it to 37 weeks. So it was... Okay. Like a couple, you know, it was like a safer gestation compared to my oldest daughter. 

And was this GC local to you? 

She was Virginia, so she was about a three hour drive from us.

Okay, that's nice that you got at least a quick drive. Um, so were you able, no NICU time then because she was full term?   That's awesome. 

And then, so for that one, we drove right home. It was like 36 hours. We just went through it. We stopped a couple of times 

that's awesome. And how old is your oldest daughter at this point when you're bringing home baby number two, 

two and a half, 

was she excited? I know it's like an age where they're like, Oh baby, but that like, are they getting it or not?

Yeah, I would say she, she was excited when she first met her and then she had moments where she would play with her and then she had all of these big sister presents from her, all of our families. So like, she would go back to all of her new toys and then like go over to see the baby and then go back to doing her own thing.

And I feel like that kind of continued until about recently because now the. the baby's walking. And so she can do more with my older daughter. And I feel like now they're really starting to bond. 

Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. It's so fun to watch siblings as they get closer. 

Yeah. 

I know she's young. Does she understand anything about surrogacy or how did you approach that with her when you were expecting a sibling? 

Yes, she definitely knows. Um, I like to tell people to go on my Instagram because there's a video of her explaining her birth and she says, like, I, you know, my mommy had a little surgery.

We took my daddy's sperm. We put me in Amber's belly. And she says, like, for four and a half years, like, she, like, tells it in her own way, but like, she gets it. Oh, my gosh.  And, um, that it happened in a different state and then we all came home and we read books while we were, um, expecting Luna, especially because I was nervous to set the room up, but I still want it.

And I wasn't looking any different. Um, so I wanted her to like see it. You know, read about it. And we played with the babies and did all of that to sort of help prepper. And there was a great books. I don't know if you have heard of any I can recommend to you. The kangaroo pouch. We read that she really likes and we still read that one. And then I there's another one.  About a koala, 

the kind koala. Yes. 

Yes. We've read that one. We've read that one. That one's helpful too. Yeah. My, my boys are a little bit older, but it's just, it's caught me off guard a little bit that my he'll be four in a couple of weeks, but he is asking all the questions and, you know, I was telling him, , Wanted to have him hear the heartbeat because we have a video of it and I'm like, I want to show you guys like, take a listen.

This is baby's heartbeat, you know, in our surrogate's belly. And he's like, Well, but how are we even going to go see it? Like, like, he was just like, wait a minute. Like, he obviously has no, like, perception of where Texas is. That's where GC is. And we're like, well, we're going to go visit. You know, there's all these things that come up on the day to day of like little things.

It's so cute what kids are going through in their minds, thinking about the whole process. But I think that's awesome  your daughter, even at a young age, like knows all of that.  I don't think you can be too young to explain in an age specific way of how things are happening because it's, it's happening, right?

I felt the same way. I was like, okay, I, we want to start working on a nursery and, you know, we are going to be traveling to go see our GC. So the, our sons need to know what's going on. And, um, You know, there's always an agent appropriate way to explain everything and I think that's really cool. 

Yeah. And then it just feels normal. It's not surprising. 

Yeah. That's what I kept thinking about. Like, we can't just show up with a baby one day. Like there's going to be, and we want to get excited, right? As adults, you know, your family's growing and it's a super exciting time. I was so relieved when we finally told our boys that we were expecting and read those books and everything, because then we can openly talk about it.

And, It feels real, which it doesn't. Sometimes it can feel a little disconnected, you know, when you're going through surrogacy,  I know you mentioned that your two journeys were different. Did you feel as in the loop with the pregnancy the second time around? Or was it just a different experience? 

Yes, I think she was great at including us. And I think, and we were just also both in a different headspace because we, we already had a daughter and she was keeping us a little bit distracted And we are more so just like that worry if we were ever going to become parents wasn't there. It was more just like, we're really excited to complete our family.

Absolutely. I agree with that. I think, I mean, having two at home and just being busy and yeah, wondering if we're going to complete our family is like top of mind, but I'm not going into it scared and worried like in the past. So that's relatable for sure. 

Can you talk to your GC frequently?

Yeah. So we text back and forth and we FaceTime for appointments. And then, um, once a trimester we're going down there. Um, well, we're going to go for the 20 week scan coming up in about a month. And then we're going to go down around like 33 weeks. And then of course for delivery, we're hoping around 33 weeks that that trip to bring our kids as well.

And we discussed our family's meeting because, um, she has two children as well that are just slightly older than our boys. So. Talked about having them all meet and that way our children can see like her belly and really like kind of Give them the visual before just bringing baby home. So 

that's exactly what we did We did really we went we visited at 12 weeks at 20 weeks And then we brought our oldest daughter around that the 33 34 weeks So she could see her belly and yeah same and spend time with her kids and her husband. So yeah same exact thing 

That's great. Okay. Yeah, I felt like it was a good like full circle moment to kind of do it that way with the family So yeah, onward we go in this pregnancy so you started your own business and I would love for you to talk about that I mean your story kind of speaks for itself. I know why you're passionate about surrogacy and helping other people but talk about what Kind of propelled you to start surrogacy simplified.

I wanted to create something that didn't quite exist in the space. I felt like during both of my journeys, it would have been so great to have somebody that I could just text questions to on demand, um, like a weekly face to face to help project manage. Because if you think about it, it is almost like a big. Tasks like a big project and like there's so much management involved.

And I just wanted, I felt like the agencies do such an incredible job, but there's like this a need for an additional layer of support. Um, and the, of course they do is so wonderful, but just like I thought, how great would it be if there was someone I could text. And someone who helped me book my travel and somebody who, um, helped me with the relationship with my GC.

So gift curation and just everything in between, remembering all of the milestones, remembering my GC's kids birthdays, like there's just all of these little things that come in. And really, I just wanted to enhance the journey for intended parents and make it, you know, just like so much smoother sailing and hope that they can really just relax and enjoy the process.

I think that is amazing and such a need for sure. And again, regardless of if you're working with an agency or not, I mean, like you said, I mean, I agree that agencies, they're amazing, but, um, each agency kind of differs to what you could be with a smaller boutique agency, a very large agency, um, we're with a very big agency and, you know, I felt really confident going that route because I knew they had the resources to match us quicker and, um, all the, you know, relationships they had with legal and all the different.

Aspects of the journey, but what might be lacking is, you know, all the little things like the personal touch of everything. Um, yeah, the milestones, the relationship building with your surrogate. Um. I think that is just so helpful and especially, you know, I was thinking for those who have never been pregnant before or our first time parents, you know, you don't actually know what your surrogate might be going through at different stages in the pregnancy and what these milestones look like.

So I think it's awesome to have to be able to have somebody on hand to walk you through that and make the experience kind of the best that it can be. So that is so, so cool. When did you launch this company and how can people get in contact with you if they would love to utilize your services during their surrogacy journey?

Yes. I launched in May. So we're about, I'm about six months old now. It's my new baby and anyone that wants to get in contact with me can email me. It's Jesse and we can put it in the show notes. I'm Jesse at surrogacy simplified. com or on Instagram. They can follow me at surrogacy simplified and on my website I offer an initial complimentary consultation.

THat's fabulous. Yeah. We will be sure to link everything so everyone can easily get in touch with you. I so appreciate you being on the show today. I loved getting to know you a little bit more. I knew we had things in common, but your story is so similar to mine in many ways. Um, and I think it's just absolutely amazing what you're doing for other parents in this surrogacy process because it is definitely, definitely needed for sure.

Yeah. And my goal is for the intended parents to be able to do the fun things like the registry and the nursery while I'm doing all of the behind the scenes work. 

Yeah, amazing. That's how it should be, right? I mean,  most people do not choose to be in this position. And there's often, you know, many, many stories and many experiences that will lead up to surrogacy.

So being able to just enjoy the happy, easy, fun, exciting parts of it is definitely priceless, in my opinion, because, being worry free is, is ideal, especially when someone Hey, things are out of your control in a surrogacy journey. You don't, you can't control much. So being able to focus on those fun things, like you said, is priceless.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I am confident that we will be chatting again on the podcast because I love picking your brain, especially, about all things surrogacy related. So thank you for being on the show today and we will chat again soon. Okay, great. Thank you guys.

That's all I have for you today. If you're new to the podcast and love the show, please consider leaving a five star review and we'd love to have you in the Motherhood Intended Community Group on Facebook. If you want to stay up to date on my own personal surrogacy journey, follow some funny posts and be in the know with everything that's going on in the podcast. You can also follow me on Instagram at motherhood underscore intended. Thanks again for listening. I hope you found value in this episode and I will talk to you again next week.