Navigating Fatherhood While Overcoming a Gambling Addiction

In this transparent and relatable *bonus* podcast episode, Jacqueline shares her conversation with her brother Jake who opens up about his journey of becoming a father while simultaneously battling a gambling addiction. He discusses his struggles and transformation, sharing his process of acknowledging he had an addiction, tackling it head-on, and continuing to uphold his commitment to staying clean. 

The episode highlights the importance of parental perspectives, honesty, resilience, personal growth, and maintaining a supportive network when facing addiction. Jake also emphasizes the potential dangers of prevalent societal influences, specifically for young people in the sphere of gambling, urging parents to equip their children with awareness and wisdom.

00:00 Introduction and Welcoming the Guest

00:44 The Journey to Fatherhood: The Beginning

02:19 The Emotional Rollercoaster of Pregnancy

05:28 The Reality of Parenthood: First Year Reflections

07:34 The Struggle with Gambling Addiction: A Candid Discussion

10:26 The Impact of Addiction on Personal Life and Relationships

13:21 The Turning Point: Acknowledging the Addiction

21:40 The Road to Recovery: Attending the First Meeting

26:50 The Impact of Parenthood on Recovery

27:59 The Role of Support in Overcoming Addiction

30:39 The Unexpected Challenges of Parenthood and Recovery

32:29 The Importance of Transparency in Recovery

34:19 Navigating Unforeseen Challenges in Recovery

39:23 The Role of Education in Preventing Addiction

45:54 The Ongoing Journey of Recovery and Parenthood

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• 10:15 (Cont.) Navigating Fatherhood While Overcoming a Gambling Addiction

Transcript

Hey, friends. Welcome to the first bonus episode of season 3. As you know on the podcast, I am bringing you along on my motherhood journey. And every week, I interview other moms about various topics surrounding fertility, women's health, and motherhood. I thought with these bonus episodes, it might be interesting to get the dad's perspective on different topics surrounding parenthood and allow them to share their story. 

So today, you'll hear my conversation with my brother, Jake, Juggling the highs and lows of parenthood with a vibrant 14 month old, Jake simultaneously confronts the uphill battle of overcoming a gambling addiction. Navigating life's challenges, he remains steadfast in his pursuit of personal growth driven by the desire to provide a resilient and thriving foundation for his family. Take a listen.

Jake, welcome to the podcast. This has been a long time coming. Ever since I started the show,  I'm just gonna out you and say you've been you've been trying to you've been trying to guess on this podcast for a while. 

I've been consistent. The consistency  has landed me here today, I believe. 

Yes and no. I have always wanted you on the podcast. I was not ready to have you on the podcast because I am just I had my my my mindset on moms, and it wasn't until a year in now that I can see how important it is to get the other perspective, getting a dad's perspective on all all different topics. So, finally, it's happening. Glad to have you here on this bonus episode. 

Glad to be here. 

Yeah. So I know bits and pieces, obviously, as I've watched you become a father,  and watched my nephew grow up, which is so cool, but I wanna hear it from your point of view. So how did you feel  when you found out that you were going to be a dad.

Well, let's see. It was  Easter of 20 22. And, yeah, we found out in the morning before Easter. And how it went was,  my wife, Rachel, took the test in the bathroom, placed it on the the sink, Came back in, uh, in our room, and then I think she went to go take the dog out or just to get some air before the results. 

And I was still in the bedroom, and I thought she had taken a look at it before she because how could she just take the test and leave? 

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I would be staring at it. 

So I went into the bathroom and looked and found out that we're  expecting. And then  I quickly realized she did not know who it was yet. 

I don't think I knew this about the story. That's hilarious. So you found out first. 

Yeah. And then so she went in, Looked at it and then knew that I already saw it because of my lack of patience. But, you know, it was,  We had a feeling, but I think, really, it didn't kick in even just seeing that test result. It didn't kick in till 1 of the first actual appointments where we, you know, could see  the heartbeat. 

Yeah.

And that was I was telling Rachel, every time we'd be in those appointments and the heartbeat would, you know, be on ultrasound, My heart would beat 10 times faster. Just it you know, it was it was very scary.  Um, and, You know, coming to grips with, like, there's a live human being inside of you. 

Yeah. I agree that first heartbeat is like, it's wild. You're like, oh, this isn't like a thing we're doing. We're not just like, we're having a baby or you know, you can say all the things you want, but until you see, the actual heart beating and  wrap your mind around the fact that, oh, it's a human in there. Like, we've created a human.  It's wild. It's interesting because, obviously, I feel like moms have a different moment than dads.

So that's cool to hear that,  it was that first like, seeing it, like, really made you realize because I don't know. I think every dad is different. I'm not gonna speak for everyone, but sometimes it's not even until babies born that they're like, oh, like, this is happening. 

Yeah. And I think, you know, first thing was just the heartbeat and then really, when when Rachel was farther into her pregnancy and seeing, you know, a kick or, like, a a Foot cut me the side of her stomach or, you know, kick me in the bed. Again, very scary. Like, woah. There's something in there. 

That's not a reminder, I'm honest.

 Also you know, being the youngest of siblings, I've not been around babies or anything really growing up apart from, you You know, like my nephews, but really wasn't around, like, seeing you every day in the pregnancy stages. So It was all a new experience for sure. 

Totally. And for listeners, so I'm the oldest of our 4 siblings, and then we have  Megan who's been on the podcast, and then Jake and my brother Joey are twins. So there's 4 of us, and you're right. mean, I was young, but, like, I was, like, 7 when you were born. And so I at least have memories of you being a baby and a toddler, mom and dad bringing a baby home and, like, seeing you in the hospital and stuff.  But, yeah, I can get why that was, like, just I mean, I remember I remember trying to, like, force you and Joey to, like, hold Hunter. Like, when he was the first baby in our family, it was, like, so awkward and uncomfortable because you're just not used to it. And now I can't imagine either of you not holding a baby. Like, it's so weird. 

I didn't wanna break 

I know, fair. Fair. That's how I felt about you when you were born.  Oh my gosh. So overall, what feeling did you have, going into this pregnancy, you know, where you're scared, happy, all the things. 

You know, I I Kind of both more so just excited for the next chapter of our life because, being together and, you know, we were we were married by the time  we, got pregnant. And just just all of the steps that we were taking  it just seemed like a natural progression of this is what's gonna be next, And I was okay with that.  It's not like we were, you know, trying to live our young ages, going to the bars every like, you know, we we like Just kinda staying at home, but also we always talk about wanting to get our family started. So 

Yeah. 

Um, you know, just, yeah, just really Excited, but also nervous to to get that journey going. 

Yeah. The fear of the unknown is always very real, especially going into parenthood. So let's fast forward a little because your son is now my nephew is over 1. He's 13 months, 14? 13. 

13. 

On January. 

His his birthday is December sixteenth, so he's 

yeah, okay.

13 and a half months. 

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Crazy.  Looking back on this first year, is parenthood. So far, what you expected? Has it surprised you? I mean, what are your, like, overarching, like, thoughts of the first year? 

Where Does the Time Go? 

Yeah. Yeah. 

 It's hard to think How he's already 13 and a half months old, but then it's also hard to think of life before he was here. 

Yeah. 

It's just awesome to see the progression through every week, every month. And, Yeah. I I mean, definitely has had tons of surprises over this time. Again, not really growing up with Younger kids or babies figuring it all out on the fly. Luckily, my my wife, Rachel,  she's the oldest of 4 siblings. So, I've taken a lot of,  help from her on Yeah.

You know, kind of the ropes, but,  I've surprised myself just really understanding  or not even understanding, but making it up as we get along. 

Yeah. Exactly I'm like, let's not even say we understand. No 1 I don't even understand. 

Yeah. You know, just really doing the best we can to just pivot when needed and just Going with with the flow and and really just taking on this journey as we we go through it. 

Yeah. 

I know it's been Interesting. Definitely has made me more responsible as a person, a parent, and, yeah, definitely a lot more tired. But 

Yeah.

You know, that's Parenthood in a nutshell. 

Literally, parenthood in a nutshell, learning to pivot and just being tired all the time. Like and it I used to think it would stop. Uh, not scary, but I used to think it was well, you know, because you've seen my your nephews. But I used to think it would get better, and it just gets different. It's never better. It's a different tired, a different overwhelm. 

Uh-huh. 

 But it's amazing, and it's been really cool to watch you become a dad. I mean, it's such a weird experience because I've always thought of you and and Joey.

Well, you are. You're my little brothers. You know, there's a 7 year difference, but, like, obviously,  once we all became adults, it's not something I think about or age difference, but it's crazy to see you guys become dads because I, like, never thought I could see the day. Was like, how there's that's gonna be so weird, like, when we were younger, and now it's just, like, amazing.  It seems so natural, and it's really cool to witness. 

So alongside becoming a father and starting your family.  We're also here to talk about, your struggle with  gambling addiction.  On the podcast here. We're all about going beyond the highlight reels that we scroll, and I think this topic is very real,  and I think listeners can relate to it in 1 way or another. So I'm really excited to talk about it today because I know it's gonna be an honest conversation that will hopefully help anyone who finds themselves in this situation, whether you are the partner of somebody struggling with an addiction or navigating it yourself,  through parenthood.

So I'm just gonna thank you in advance for being on the show today to kinda open up about that. 

Absolutely. 

So let's kinda go back. Obviously, Jacob is  a little over a year old. Take me back to,  let's just say, like, the year prior 

Mhmm.

To starting your family, to getting married, to finally kind of coming to terms that you might have an addiction problem. Walk me through that a little bit and your experience. 

Right. So, Yeah. I, you know, I I started gambling. I'll kinda go back a little farther in a minute here. But

let's set the scene. 

But but yeah. So, You know, growing up,  when you're hanging out with your buddies, you know,  we could be in middle school or high school. We're playing Texas Hold'em.

It's only for, you know, a couple dollars here and there. But,  looking back, I realized, like, all these times where I was trying to get together with my friends, not necessarily to see them, But to try and get some money.  So just little things like that. And then, you know, as progressed into college,  with sports betting being more easily accessible. It wasn't quite legal yet in Illinois, but it was legal in, say, other states like Iowa.

And it was easy to, like, bypass,  systems to, get through those. So, yeah, a lot of it was being a sports gambling and then, you know, we had the world of crypto and all of that stuff. So  and even just normal stocks, you know, it's it was really easy to fall into this rabbit hole of, you know, you don't have much money and,  I have, let's just say, an entrepreneurial spirit. So if I'm focused on something, I'm hyper focused Right. Which I that's also from ADHD that I have. But, you know, a a lot of it is  really focused on trying to better my life, I thought 

Yeah. 

By gambling to, Hopefully, you know, get this big win and then solve all of my issues, whether that be issues to get money to go out with my friends 1 night or, uh, Uh, you know, get money for after college so I can move out and and live with my girlfriend or fiance at the time Yeah. Rachel.

So, You know, a lot of it was just stemming throughout the years. And then  after graduating college, That is when really gambling in Illinois became so popular  legal and, obviously, we see the billboards and everything everywhere. So that's I I think, wanna say 20 21 was so just about 3 years ago is really when I I started gambling So much more because, you know, I was doing the sports gambling. And when I wasn't sports gambling, I was taking a break, and I was getting into stocks or crypto 

Yeah. 

Because I could justify it. I could be like, oh, I'll do my research in these companies and and these crypto coins and, like, okay. I've done my research. This is a for sure thing. 

Yeah. 

I'm gonna invest my money here, and it's not a gamble. I tell 

I mean, even I remember you I remember asking you about it. And when you were getting into these different things like crypto, I mean, I can see how it would be easy to justify or, like, rationalize what you're doing because of what it is. It's something that, like, everyone's talking about. It's everywhere. And like you said, it's so easily accessible nowadays. It's crazy.  

Yeah. So, yeah, definitely  got down, like, a a pretty big tunnel there. And, know, late 20 21, I had racked up a good amount of debt, and that's about when I told Rachel we were married at the time. Well,  We're just about getting married at the time. Um, we're still saving up for our wedding because we got married in September of 21. So this was kind of mid  20 21. 

Yeah. Which I'm just guessing, and correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe part of this was,  maybe motivation is not  word, but was weighing on your on your mind. Right? You're starting a family with someone. You just wanna, like, figure out how to, like, get what you might need and get ahead and and, you know, be a partner in your marriage. 

Absolutely. No. That was you know, there's a thing in compulsive gamblers where there's It's called the dream world. So, you know, you think that gambling and getting all these big winnings, it's going to make your life So much better, and you're gonna get a new house with your new wife and all these things. So that was you know, looking back, You know, obviously, I've reflected on a lot. 

Yeah. 

 So no. That was definitely part of just the stress of, okay. I'm getting married.  We need to buy a house, all this stuff. So that was my motivation for sure.  Obviously, when things went south, I did not Get these big wins. Uh, you know, I lost quite a bit and,  maxed out a couple credit cards and whatever it may be.

I told Rachel, about  what happened. But at the time, uh, you know, this was again kinda hurt, like, mid 20 21. I wasn't willing to really Let Go of Gambling. I kind of dispute it as, okay, this was a little issue here. 

Yeah. Just got out of hand. 

Just got a little out of hand. A lot of bad losses. Is. I could have done better research on the companies I invested in, all these things. Oh, how who could have predicted the market would crack? Like, all these things. So I was you know, I I stopped scamming of any sort for probably 3 months or so. And, Up until our our wedding,  I wanna say I wasn't gambling. But, really, once the new year came because then, you know, now we're married Yeah. 20 22, early 20 22. We're married. We have our house, our townhome.  But then, you know, you you always have the financial pressures, Whatever. Even if you're in debt or not.

Yeah. Just seeing a young couple starting off,  it's very natural to be, like, wanting to get ahead and wanting to I mean, you're just getting started. So it's it's a interesting time. 

Yeah. So, fast forward now to closer to when I I actually came to grips with the addiction. Um, so 20 22 early,  I, again, started gambling. Uh, I I think it was mostly sports betting this time. And all that debt that I had got us into that we had, taken out a loan to then pay for. Because, again,  we didn't really understand the full grips of this, uh, addiction on me. 

So we had, taken out a loan, and then within the span of about  3 months, all of that money that I amassed, um, the first round of this terrible addiction. 

Yeah. 

I put that all back on plus, you know, obviously, the loan that we took out. So  that was when I was coming to grips with the addiction because the first time I put all this debt on the account  all behind  my wife's back. 

She didn't know anything. And then the second time, I was, like, just going to bed every single night for probably 2 months. I would only sleep maybe an hour every night because I was just like, How did I get myself into this position once again? 

Yeah. 

 Then that's when I knew that I had no control over this because If if I got basically, quote, unquote, a free pass after the first time and then did it all over again plus more,  I just couldn't come 

bigger than you.

Yeah. I I could not comprehend. But the other thing that the addiction will do is you will Feel that way, sleep for an hour or so, and then I'll wake up in the morning. I'm like, alright. It's a new day.

I gotta get that money back. my spouse never finds out about this. Yeah. And then I'd be gambling again. So it's just never ending and really, When I I finally came clean to my wife, and just really myself was around September.  Late September. We were actually at a friend's wedding, and we got back to the hotel after the wedding was over. And  the whole night. I was just you know, this this wedding was away in California, and she knew that I was off.

Something was going on. And it's because all of this stress, everything was just eating me for the past couple months, And I just reached my breaking point. And for the first time ever in my life, I had a mental breakdown in the hotel room where I Uncontrollably was crying, shaking. You know, this is like a grown man just shaking and crying unbearably. 

Yeah.

And  I could not control it, and I just let all of it out right there. And it was such a relief Just to get it out because,  at that time in September here, we're talking Rachel's 7 months Pregnant, 6 and a half months pregnant. I was coming to the conclusion. Basically, I at that time, I only had 2 options I felt like was, 1, I wouldn't be here when our son was born, or 2, I would have to, you know, accept the fact that I did all this again and tell my wife about it. So, you know, thankfully, looking back now, I I told her about it, but that was yeah. It was 

That's a really scary place to be. I mean, that's  I know you they they say this term just from my knowledge a lot. I feel like when it comes to addiction, of any kind, you know, you're rock bottom or whatever, and I don't know if that's what it was for you. But, I mean, when you're you don't have control over your body and your emotions. Like, your body is literally, like, getting it out. That's a really dark place to be. 

Yeah. No. It's  You know, it was definitely my  rock bottom of then. There could be another rock like, I can bottom out even more, let's just say. But, like but, no. That was definitely, like, a breaking point. Like 

Right.

1 or 2 things was gonna happen then. So, you know, I I just letting it all out and, you know, Finally taking this illness seriously. 

And, of course, at that point, you still aren't understanding that it's an illness. Right. You're just trying to figure out, what is the way out of this? Like, what are the options? And obviously, when you say those 2 options, like, those were your options from your point of view in that moment.  of course, there are always different. There's always options, like but that was what it was in your mind at that moment with what you were feeling and dealing with, which is the scary part that, like, you think that there's only 2 ways out of what you got yourself into. 

Yeah.  

So before you came clean to your wife, earlier that year is obviously when you found so at Easter, you said. You guys found out. Would you say your addiction and, again, at this point, you're not thinking of it as an addiction yet. Right? 

No. But I definitely that's when the Stress again, obviously, just like when right before we got married. Yeah. That's again, oh, we're having a child, and we need all this money, and I just got us into somewhere's That already?

Like, amplified everything. 

To help this cause. So that's again yeah. When I started I definitely, the financial pressures of having a child Put me back in that dream world of I need to make our life so much better. And so 

Yeah.

I need to get all this money and, You know, we'll have daycare all this stuff. I need to do that now so that no. That for sure would be something that definitely led to,  that gambling spree. But 

Yeah. 

Even if we weren't pregnant, there would have been something else, You know, oh, I wanna get us into a different house. There's always something 

what I was trying to understand too because I could it's relatable, I think, whether you have an addiction to something or not. I mean, just from a financial piece and being parents and just, growing up, right, being an adult, there's always something you always want more. It feels like you always want to, like you know, once you have the house, then you want to upgrade the house or you want a bigger house or you have the car, but you want a better car. And, like, it's never ending, and I think it's having conversations like these whether listeners have struggled with an addiction like this or not. It's just a good reminder too to, like,  there's always gonna be something  I mean, I cannot relate to your feelings and what you've been through.

But I can relate to the small piece of in hard times because there's always hard times in parenthood and in marriage and financially too. You have ups and you have downs. I've been in that position  and I know my husband has too. I know Josh has been in points where he's like, I'll just get a second job. You know, like, when we take on 1 more thing, you know, whether it's, you know, IVF or surrogacy or we just wanna put our kids in a certain activity or there's always gonna be something that's gonna make you feel a little bit of desperation to, like, level up or get to the next place.

And, I think depending who you are and depending on your personality and your, I don't know, your background and your makeup, you are gonna react differently. So, like, obviously, these instances sound like it just, like, amplified it for you. 

And yeah. And a lot of it too also is Gambling was my way of coping with stress. Even if it wasn't to say I was gambling 

Like, if you didn't have a goal.

Right. It wasn't even just to say, oh, I need to get all this money. It was also, like, I need to escape reality right now. I need to go gamble. I need 

Interesting.

All these games. You know, I'd be Gambling on games, 3 in the morning, like tennis. Yeah. And then I think I won, and I didn't actually know how to the Scoring. So, like Yeah. So, you know, it would but it was just a stress relief. Like 

Like an escape. 

Right. It definitely escaped even if it's not the dream world of winning a bunch of money, but dream world of not being in this world. Just a Yeah. You know? So definitely you get the financial pressure, but you also just get the pressure of Growing up and just life. Yeah. Yeah. Life. So, yeah, both both things for sure. 

Yeah. I get that. Like we said, once you found out you were expecting  that kind of amplified things again, gambling on all different things, like you mentioned, is also a way to relieve stress and then escape, and that makes a lot of sense. I've never heard Heard you talk about it like that. I never thought about it like that. I thought it was all just, like, money  related, and I I just always thought that it was something you turned to, like you mentioned Before, just trying to, like you know, with all the pressures that you have, you know, like, trying becoming parents, getting married, wanting a house, all these things. I just thought that was always the motivation, but It makes a lot of sense to me that that is also something that you would just turn to in a moment of needing stress relief or an escape because people do that in all kinds of ways. Whether you're just scrolling your phone or Playing a video game, 

Right. 

So now you mentioned, You know, you had this  mental breakdown in California. You came clean to your wife about what was Eating at you the months prior. Now it's in the open. What do you do from there? 

Yes. So it was late September that, I came clean Or this  out of body experience that came clean for me.

Yeah. 

And yes. So, really, the next couple weeks was just us kind of Trying to figure out what that means for us moving forward. So, you know, luckily, I have a very supportive wife who didn't just leave me there because,  it happens a lot, which, You know, your spouse just lied for how long?

And, you know, it's you know, a lot of people you'll see, like, they're on the couch at their parents' house Yeah. When these things happen. So, luckily, I stayed in the house, but, yeah,  it was really just us figuring out how we need to navigate at least in the early stages. So,  1 of the first things was making sure that my name was off of anything for finances. So, you know, whether it be the house, the car, anything that I could have access To,  our bank accounts just putting protections in place not only For me, but from me because I couldn't trust myself, let alone, you know, could my spouse trust me.

 And then it took me a good month to actually attend my first meeting. I,  Procrastinated going to that meeting. I knew I had to, but  Halloween day was my first meeting. So,   late October of that that same year, 20 22. So by this time, our son was due in about a month and a half. 

Yeah. 

So, yeah, that was my first meeting. That's not my clean date because, again, this is the, the addiction for you, the illness. And, I went to my first meeting. There's 20 questions that they have you That that's in the pamphlet, the book that we read every meeting. And these 20 questions, if you answer yes to 7 of them, then you're likely a gambling addict. Well, I answered, at the time, 18, and, You know, now I can answer 20 once I was honest with myself. 

Yeah.  

But just realizing, wow.

Like, if I had these questions earlier, I would've been like, oh, wow. This Could be an issue. Yeah. So so we really just getting in that meeting was so eye opening. Just seeing everyone else there, A different range of,  age as well. Just realizing like, wow. This addiction really can take hold of anybody. 

Yeah. 

So, yeah, I left that meeting feeling good because I was like, wow. I'm not alone in this.

Yeah. 

There is a reason that this Happened, it's because I'm sick. I have this illness. And then, you know, just as the illness does, the next day so this was a Monday of my first meeting. The Tuesday after that meeting, in the mail, I got this credit card that I had applied for about a week prior. Very low amount. It was, like, the last company that would give me anything. 

Yeah. 

That that came in the mail, and then I instantly gambled with it because I was like, Alright. Those people are crazy in that meeting.

I am not 1 of them. I'm gonna use this card here. I'm gonna get out of all of our issues. I'm gonna You know, that is just back to the dream world. Like, just a a light switch right there.

Which is crazy. I feel like that speaks to the disease in itself. Like, that speaks Volumes that you can go from feeling like, little bit of a weight lifted off your shoulder. I'm not alone. This makes sense. I have a little bit of clarity. So, like like you said, a light switch to all of a sudden back in in your thought. Like 

It's like, we're gonna use this card. I will never have to go to these meetings I'm gonna solve all of this. Crazy. Yeah. So, obviously, that did not go as planned. Even if I were to win a bunch, it would have been We would have been Yeah. You know, I I would have been through all that again. So,  I went back the following week, November seventh, and that's now my clean date. So,  just over, what is it, 13 months, 14. 

Over 14 months. Right? 

14 months. Yeah. 14 months clean now. Also, it goes to show, like, there's relapses himself an addiction, but  I just try to be consistent with it, but, you know, I'm not perfect and, You know, it's just just crazy. Like It's 

it's crazy. I've learned a lot from you over the year of just what this looks like.  In regards to addiction,  everyone has their own experiences and knows different people in their life. But,  for me, it was more so just what I've seen on TV. And a lot of it is just, like, alcohol drug addiction, like, things that I've seen and heard about it, never living through it. But It's really eye opening to know that, like you said, it can grab a hold of anyone in any situation at any age. And I think You've said this, but more so now than ever. I mean, it's right at your fingertips at all times.

And at a young age, like you said, you were In high school dabbling in this and without knowing, like you're not even old enough at that point to even understand,  the repercussions Or what you're doing. I mean, like, our brains aren't even fully formed until 25. So it's, like, it's scary how Young people can get a hold of this and 

Yeah. And you're getting that dopamine rush from 

Yeah. 

And, actually, you know, just For gambling addicts, at least I just recently saw, like, there's a thing where,  the rush isn't even if you're going to You know, getting the big win. The rush is actually just placing the bet and not knowing if you're gonna win it. Yeah. There's more dopamine release Just from the anticipation than there is from actually winning, which is just, you know, it's just crazy. But no. It's  Definitely eye opening going to the meetings.

And, my son was born in December, and my clean date's November.  So Something that's really stuck with me  this whole time is 1 of my first meetings before my son was born is someone mentioned, If I never gamble again, my son will never know me as a gambling addict. So as a parent, that's kind of been part of my motivation. Just Yeah.  Now it's more than just me that could me and my wife that I'm destroying.

It would be his life too. But, also, I don't want him to see me as an addict and because I don't wanna see myself as Right. Who I was before. 

Yeah. That's really interesting. I was just thinking about that as you were as you were saying, like, with the timeline of everything, how your clean date was November. Your son was born in December. I mean, do you think that, um, and this is just in hindsight or, like, just a what if thing, but do you think if maybe you weren't Expecting, and you were about to be a dad. Do you think you would have walked into that first meeting at that point, or was it kind of, like, A little bit of pressure that you needed to, I don't know, take that step because I think the first step is a big 1. Right? You're you gotta admit that you have a problem. 

Right. Yeah. No. I think I would say if we weren't expecting, I probably would have done a lot more damage  To get to that point.

Yeah. 

So,  I'm grateful that Just kind of the circumstances were there, all the pieces lined up for me at that time because  just knowing that Jacob was gonna be born was my motivation  my additional motivation to I need to get my life together as much as I can for not us, but for our son too. So, Yeah. That was definitely a a good factor. 

It's crazy as parents, I mean, they always tell you, like, oh, when you have a kid, it changes you. Like, parenthood changes you. And I never realized the magnitude of what That could be. I was like, oh, yeah. It changes me because I'm not gonna be like this fun 20 something going to parties and stuff. I'm not gonna be I'm gonna be different version of myself. But I don't know about you, but I just never anticipated the level of change, like, for the good Yeah. That parenthood would bring.

I always thought it was, like, a Not a bad thing, but just like a kinda like a lame thing. Like, it's like, I'll be different because I'll be busier. I'll be more tired.  But parenthood really just, I think, puts life into a different perspective and turns you I mean, I've seen it happen with you.

I've seen it happen with you. I've seen it happen with our other siblings and friends of mine where, like, you become a parent and you are just, like, Brought to your best self,  obviously, we're always learning and trying to be better people,  better versions of ourself. But,  I'm not surprised that, you know, even before he was born,  your son just kind of, like, took you to the next level to, like, rise up to the occasion and be like, look. This is this is where I need you even though he doesn't know it.

Yeah. 

And,   how powerful for that person to tell you  that like, I know it based on the timeline of everything, but I never thought about it like that where you will never know that you  have an addiction, as long as, you know, you stay clean. But I do know, enough about addiction to know that Often, it's not like a linear path.  There's ups and downs, and no 1 is perfect. And life is gonna continue to change, and there's always gonna be those Amplifying moments, right, in your life. So,  it's constantly something you have to work on. Right? 

Right. Yeah. And I just constantly also have that Little reminder, like, your son doesn't know you have gambling at it.

Yeah. That's powerful. 

Give him away. Don't don't have him grow up. And, You know, you're in he's in middle school and, oh, where's daddy's gambling? Like 

Right. 

You know, it's it's I'm so grateful that they made that comment because I just further Just my my recovery that just always sticks with me all the time. You know? 

Yeah. That's big. Yeah. I can see how that would just stick with you and carry you through. So when you I know you said,  you guys kind of switched up how everything you know, bills and all that. Everything was, like, In your wife's name, and you took that off of you, not only because you couldn't trust yourself, but just to make smart decisions. And then that's when you decided to go to a you know, finally go to a meeting. Did you guys have anyone, like, guiding you through this, or were you guys just working together to figure out, like, okay. I think this is best. Let's just do this.

 Because I know you're almost about to be parents, and I know that there's already fears of the unknown with that and just, like, the stress of, like, holy cow, we're about to have a human. And now, as almost new parents, you are taking on, navigating, trying to do your best with what comes next. Did you have guidance, or were you guys just, like, kinda winging it? Or I don't know. 

Yeah. I mean and also not to mention, I just dropped this bombshell on my seventh month pregnant. 

Right. Let's not forget all the things that like, that's the whole story in itself. Just her processing Listing everything and navigating that in her perspective. But this today, we're getting your side, but let's not forget that there is a whole other half of this equation.

Yeah. So, No. I mean, we were definitely doing a lot of research. My wife was doing a lot too and just kind of trying to see how to navigate the next steps. And, I think we are definitely getting guidance as much as we can from family members. You know, 1 of the biggest things is, our mom and dad. My mom and dad. Um, or our mom and dad. 

I'll claim them too. They're mine too. 

Yeah. That, uh, that that week that I had came clean to Rachel, we had invited them over  to have dinner. And, you know,  I feel like when mom and dad get an invite for for dinner or whatever, out of the blue Out of the blue. They know something's up. Like Yeah. You know, shortly after dinner, I think dad was like, Alright. So what is it? 

Yeah. Also, they're probably thinking like, okay. You're married. You live together. You're already expecting. What else is there? 

Yeah. Right. So, you know, 1 of the biggest things that, you Rachel wanted me to do was kind of come clean to them as well which was really, good for me too just to kind of let them in on what's going on. Because The other thing is, you know, we didn't wanna feel alone, and Rachel didn't wanna feel alone in this time of uncertainty. So, yeah, a lot of it was just trying to get the guidance from whether it be family, friends, and just, you know, really just doing as much research as we can on next steps and what to do for a gambling addict or,  any addiction. 

It's just important just to there's so much resources out there.  And  we knew that  1 of the most important steps is really going to a meeting. It took me a while to actually get to that first 1, but we knew that was the plan. 

Yeah.

We we didn't know what was a plan after that, but we, you know 

1 foot in front of the other. Right? 

It's, you know, 1 day at a time. Yeah. They they they say in recovery and, You know, that's kinda still what we do. It's just, you know, some days, I'll go to 2 meetings. Some days, may maybe this week, it'll be 3. And, You know, it's all just taking a day at a time and yeah. It it's so so that was what we did in the early stages, just kind of Doing as much research as possible. 

I think that's really good advice for anyone who finds themselves in any kind of addiction situation is To seek support first and foremost. Right? I mean, especially with people you're close to someone you already open Anyway, because I can imagine without seeking that kind of support, whether from your side of it or Rachel's,  it's almost like you're carrying this This burden and this lie around when it's, like, consuming you,  wholeheartedly.  I remember when you opened up to our family about it, I always remember the first thing. Obviously, I'm just like I was just so proud because that's that's a hard thing to do and,  especially for anyone at any point,  Having to ask for help  is hard, especially as a a grown man. So 

Yeah.  

Proud of you for that. So then Jacob is born. Mhmm. And during this time, obviously, if you have Children and you're listening. You've been through the newborn stage. Um, It's a tired 1. There's a lot going   Trying to figure out sleeping and eating and just your role as a mom and a dad.  What did that look like kind of in parallel to Newly navigating, you know, this addiction and coming to terms with it. I mean, did you stick with it? Did it fall to the wayside? Did it feel overwhelming. What was going through your mind when those 2 versions of you kinda Clashed,  

yeah. So once Jacob was born,  I think I I got more of that sense of I can't gamble ever again type of feeling because, you know, this is my world now. He's this is our family. So I I had more of that motivation, but,  when he came home, I think 1 of the first days that he came home, I went to a meeting that night. So, the biggest thing is also just having a spouse who just really is Pushing me, but also really understanding this illness and, like, hey. I know we just got our son home. 

Yeah.

But But you gotta go to the meeting and,  that's great. So it just really having that support has really, really helped early on. But no. Being in recovery and then having a newborn was it I I think Just because, you know, having newborns so busy Yeah. I wasn't even really thinking about gambling or anything.

So that was probably a good thing as well, just Being tired all the time, having almost no time between the Yeah. You know how it is. So Yeah.  And and I think the other thing is too just not having distractions, like, whether I'm on my phone all the time. Just Yeah.

Being present in the moment Also furthered me just really learning kind of early on what I need to do for this human being now that's Yeah. Relying on us for everything.  So that was yeah. That was 

I'm sure in that time too, you kind of Maybe we're more aware of, like,  what your triggers might be. Like, if if you have the time to, like, turn to your phone or stay up later And play a game or do something,  you were probably more likely to do it. But now you just, like, literally,  did not have the time because you were like, oh, I've got a second Kwame and sleep. Like 

No. Exactly. 

 I get that. With a gambling addiction, it sounds like I mean, support is helpful in any addiction. But it sounds like specifically with this,  having people know and having people who will do accountable  Is a big part of staying clean. 

Yeah. I mean, for me, definitely just being open with family and friends was Something that not only held me accountable, but also maybe let them because the thing is with  alcohol you go to a party or something, there's alcohol everywhere.

But just like gambling, it's so Common nowadays. Any games on, you know, you're gonna see a spread. You're gonna see probably people talking about a spread. They're like, oh, hey. Who you got on this game? So 

All the fantasy talk. 

Like Right. All of that. So I think, you know, that's been really important for me to just be as transparent and open with family and friends, which now it's so good that they know because, You know, they know not to have those conversations because not to say, like, having that would then make me go gamble, but it's  just Kind of the the mutual respect of, like, well, you know, probably shouldn't talk about that now just because you know? 

Yeah. I mean, from my point of view, like, being aware of it, I feel like is the easiest way to support you and to, like, not bring it up. It because I feel like, yeah, without Those around you knowing and those conversations flying back and forth and different things, you know, like like you said, it's just everywhere. I feel like It's just making it that much harder for you. So, like, knowing about it and being more aware, I think, is just the best way that people around you can support you. 

Yeah. Absolutely. And it's, You know, it's not to say, like, oh, if you bring it up in front of me, like, oh, shame on you. Yeah. It's like because that's just how natural it is to bring up in Conversation or just in the day and age that we live in. So, it's just really nice having family and friends that know What I struggle with and Yeah.

What they  could avoid or should avoid. So, no, it's definitely been a really good part and important part of my recovery Just having that transparency. And,  I think the other thing is too that I try and be transparent about is just letting my friends know who I know that, may have gambled or Continue to gamble. Just just them knowing, like, hey. This could happen to anybody.

Right. 

And  I just want you to,  be aware and be careful because  no 1 is immune to any addiction. It could hit you at the right exact, if all the stars align, anyone is susceptible to getting an addiction to whatever it may be. 

That is very, very true, and I'm glad you said that because, no 1 is untouched in addiction. It's not biased at all. So I'm curious, and this may not even be a fair question because, again, you have a toddler right now. But if you could look into your future of being a father and having a son.  And I am fully confident that you can stay clean and  keep  being involved in the way that you are. But,  when Jacob's older I guess we're living in a different age.

Right? We've said it multiple times where it's everywhere. It's readily available. Gambling in all different forms is, like, at your fingertips and at such a young age. What would you say to maybe somebody listening who has a an older child, maybe in high school or, middle school or just anyone who has Kids listening, what are your thoughts on that as a parent,  looking into the future? Obviously, there's no wrong answer because we're not there yet. But I'm just curious. 

No. It's it's actually funny you bring this up because me and Rachel were Actually, talking about this the other day, like, am I gonna say something to Jacob when he's older? Yeah. You know, say something to our kids. And, Yeah. I mean, I think it's kind of just, you know, like, you have some of the talks that you have with a a child as they grow up. I think it's definitely gonna be 1 that, You know, when we agree that the time is right, we will talk about him. Because the thing is, like, even though he may not know me as a a gambling addict ever, it's still important that he knows that I I am a gambling addict.

Yeah. 

Maybe not that he sees the repercussions of a gambling addict, like, in How I could possibly, if I were to gamble again, tear our family apart and all these negative things. 

Yeah. 

But it's important to know that That gambling addiction is very real and  just making him aware of, hey.  You need to avoid this. I was telling Rachel, who knows in, let's just say, 5, 10 years. What the world's gonna be like?

And, you know, we're we definitely have to be careful on, you know, say, If they have a a game on their iPad or whatever it may be where they're, you know, they're spinning a wheel or doing something like that where they have no control of the outcome And, you know, bright lights and all these things, like, all these different factors that could, be so, like, overcoming with their senses and Yeah. Releasing so much dopamine. We do have to be careful with that. And  I think as as he grows up, Whether it be sports, but whatever it is, we're gonna talk to him and steer him the other way because absolutely need to avoid that. And it's just like, You know, addiction, it is hereditary too. So 

That's what I was gonna ask you. I didn't know if it was or not.  Is it something in general that's hereditary?

Yeah. It it is. So that's why, you know, like, Say you have a father or mother who's a gambler not a gambling addict. Let's just say they're an alcoholic. 

Yeah. 

That's why, it's important that  your son or daughter, they know that because they're susceptible to that. 

They can look out for the signs, be more sensitive, and when they're in situations and yeah. I mean, if anything, yeah, you've just got this advantage in parenting  what it looks like Firsthand to be able to not only protect your son, but educate him and know what to talk to him about. I mean, like, I don't think The generations before us knew all of this nor did they, like especially with, like, us being born into the technology era. Like, they didn't know any of it anyway. But like you said, who knows what the future holds? It's kinda scary. 

Yeah. And,  for listeners that let's just say they have Middle school, high school students, whatever it may be, that age group it it is important, I think, to just be aware of what's going on out there with gambling because The thing is I can tell you how many times I've been at, say, like, a Buffalo Wild Wings, and I see a group full of teenagers behind us, and they're all talking about the live games and the live bets that they're placing. So it's very real, and they're getting  Whether it be it doesn't matter how much money it's for. They're still it's at their fingertips.

And they probably don't even have jobs yet. 

Right. Exactly. But that's their that could be their form of income that they did. So, you know, it's it's very real, and it's very easy to get sucked into, especially at a young age when, you know, your brain's still developing and you're getting these Crazy dopamine  releases from gambling. So it's absolutely something to watch out for if you have children that are Around those age groups. It's just just something to keep an eye on because, you know, I I've said it a couple times in meetings that I'm fearful for these next generations and gambling addictions because, you know, it's just like when casinos and riverboats and everything became so popular.

Yeah. Because they all just started sparking up, and then that's when you really saw gambling addictions  really take place. Well, now I think we're gonna have this whole another wave. I mean, even the people that have been meetings for so long,  these older people,  They just are so surprised and worried as well about how many young people come into meetings now. So it it's definitely something that's Very real. It's going to continue, I think, to grow, unfortunately. And, you know, it's just just really It's scary. Important to to know about and be educated. 

Yeah. I mean, especially as parents. The topic of technology and our kids is always, you know, a a hot topic  When to give your kids phones, tablets, screen time? What age is this? What age is that? Social media. I mean, it is not to be forgotten about these different sites That involved gambling because I don't think it gets talked about enough.

We're talking about social media. We're talking about how little girls feel and posting selfies and things like that. But Like you said, this is a big problem, and I think it's unfortunately  only gonna get worse, which means as parents, we have to step up even more And be in the know, which is why I'm glad that we're having this conversation today because it is something that you're not gonna be scrolling on your Instagram and see someone posting about Their husband or their wife or someone dealing with this. I mean, I think more and more people are slowly becoming open with their struggles and  Not having such picture perfect feeds, but talking about things, but this is exactly why I wanted to have this conversation because it affects more than just You, and you know this. It affects your affected your wife. It's your your kids, and that's for anyone. It goes way beyond you.  And the only way to stop The cycle of this, especially when it's hereditary, is to be educated and to teach your kid. And I love that you mentioned, you know, it's not that you're gonna Him not knowing that you're an addict was really just about the repercussions. He's not gonna see you in that state because you are in recovery and you've been clean.

But it's it is important to for him to know, obviously, like you said, eventually, that you are an addict.  Because  it Shaped who you are and who you're going to be. You know? It's I talk about this in the fertility world a lot too.

Different topic, but same idea. You know? Eventually, my kids will all know the lengths that we've been through to bring them into this world, and it's I don't think it's necessary now to tell my boys that they're a product of, like, IVF. Mhmm. But it's made me who I am, and it's made us the parents that we are. So I think it's definitely not to go  Unmentioned because it's part of our story. 

Right. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be your title, but it's still your story. 

Who you are.

Yeah. Exactly. Life always throws struggles your way, and it's just all about how you deal with it. So, you know, I mentioned my clean date was November seventh of 20 22. So this past November, November of 20 23, I was let go of my job of almost 6 years very unexpectedly, uh, due to layoffs. That was, I believe, November third. So my clean date November seventh. So 4 days before my my year clean. 

Really being tested. 

Yeah. So I I I definitely viewed that as a test. And let's just say if I wasn't clean, that would have been a huge trigger for me to go out and gamble everything I didn't we didn't have. Yeah. So, you know, I I obviously didn't gamble. I hit my year. And, these these past couple months have definitely,  you know, has tested us once again just in terms of  not only me withstanding from gambling, but also just  us being parents. And, there's definitely been thoughts where I'm not not that I'm going to go gamble or anything, but just, like, thoughts of kind of, wow. I got us into this huge financial mess, and now I don't even, like, have a job right now to support my end of the deal and, you know, try and get us out of it right now. So, it's definitely been  a little bit of a struggle, but at the same time, I could say I've been enjoying the time with my son. He was part time day care. He was going 3 days a week to day care.

Now he's only 1 day a week at day care and home with me the the rest of the time. So that's been interesting trying 

Different change of pace? 

Yeah. Definitely, uh, definitely been interesting, you know, hanging out with him all day and and taking care of him while also still job searching. But I I could tell you if I was still gambling,  I would be on my phone constantly.

I would not be present with him. Yeah. My wife would not be happy with me because I probably would not be taking very good care of him. Mhmm. And, you know, so I'm thankful that I'm I'm just being able to be present with him and,  trying to enjoy the bads not maybe not bad, but just unforeseen circumstance that we're in now 

Yeah.

And navigating through that. So, I definitely have enjoyed parenthood and  just kind of goes to show that you're always having to pivot 

Yes. 

In parenthood. 

Always. Always. Whether you are struggling with addiction or not, it is a constant pivot and life loves to throw curve balls. And, Yeah. Timing is so funny in life. I mean, that was, like, within days. And I remember when just as part of, you know, your family, I remember hearing that you,  were let go from your job, and it was just, like, It was a little scary because, as an outsider, you know, still learning about your addiction.

You know? I was like, oh my gosh. We need to make sure we're on him. Like, I wanna make sure that he's doesn't think that, he needs to like, this isn't the end of the world. It is not ideal, obviously, and for anyone no 1 wants to go on not their terms.

Like, being laid off sucks regardless of the situation. Yeah. But I was just worried about you feeling in, like, a desperate  way. You know? 

Yeah. I mean, I've never been laid off from a job. So it was,  I would say I was kind of nervous too and, you know, the fact that I've here again is a circumstance I've never faced before. So I got let go in the morning. And then that night, I went to a meeting, which I usually wouldn't go to just because I had to go. I had to just talk about it.

And like I said in that meeting, it was just like, I've never dealt with this before, and I figured this would probably be the place I should be ahead. Yeah. Um, just like the first football season of the the the first game of the football season, I was at a meeting because, you know, it it's just just setting up as much barriers, but also realizing that these circumstances I've never been through, and I don't know how to cope with it. So I think you're dealing with it. 

Like, if you've never dealt with it before, now you're dealing with an addiction on top of it. So it's like I mean, I think that's that's something you should definitely be proud of of, especially someone in their first year of recovery,  Being so proactive. Like, you genuinely are, like, conscious of making sure you're not in these situations, which I don't think everyone who is Struggling with an addiction like this can say that they've done. So you should feel very proud of yourself for that. And, I think it's It's interesting too.  You said how you felt when you were first laid off,  you said,  I not not only did I get us in this,  financial situation, but now I'm not holding up my end of the deal 

mhmm. Another way to look at it too is, like, yes. Like, it's not you didn't choose to be laid off. Like, it's just circumstantial, and it sucks. But you are holding up your end of the deal and that you are such a present father.

You are there for Jacob, and then this is even an option for you. Not every dad can be home 4 days a week like you are. So while it's not,  the strides you were hoping for in a certain lane, like, financially, you would not be the dad that you are today, if you haven't come this far in your recovery. So I think that's just another way of looking at it. 

Yeah. Absolutely. And that's been what I remind myself every time, you know, a a rough moment happens throughout the day, between Jacob and our our dog, Ruby Yeah. When they're playing fetch with each other and I'm playing fetch with, uh, Ruby, getting stuff. So  not taking it for granted and just being appreciative that this is a special time whether it hopefully 

Whether you chose it or not. 

Yeah. Whether whether whether I chose it or I didn't you know, hopefully, not for too long, but if it is, you know, we'll deal with that then. So, you know, no. Absolutely. Just being grateful for this experience with my son is something that I'm I try to remind myself of. 

Yeah. Which is so relatable just in parenthood in general. You know? Parenting, like we said, we talked about how it's all about pivoting. Well, it's also about seasons. You know?

Like, you only get certain seasons with your kids, and then it changes. And so I know a lot of listeners, whether you're stay at home mom or stay at home dad,  I know I've felt this before where I'm just I go through seasons where I'm like, oh, I hope this is I need something else. I hope this isn't forever. And then I'll be in a moment where I'm like, what am I do? Like, I really need to take this in.

All of a sudden, I blink and kindergarten, and I'm like, I'm lucky. I'm grateful to have this moment whether you know? And I didn't I chose it, but not at first. It was kind of circumstantial with, You know, Hunter being a preemie and all the therapies and just,   my super fun pregnancies that decide to put me in the hospital all the time. So, uh, didn't necessarily  choose this path, but I'm like you, I'm grateful and try to remind myself to be present in it because this is The moment I'm in, uh, whether I chose it or not. So Yeah. And it's it's Relatable. 

It's funny because, you know, he's home 4 days a week, and then, on Tuesdays, he'll be at daycare.  So the 4 days a week while he's home, I'm like, uh, you know, I'm so tired, but whatever. We're playing and all this stuff.

And then on Tuesday is when he's at daycare, I'm like, wow. I miss him. Like Yeah. Like, I'm so glad that I'm able to sit down and be able to do something right now and, you know, apply to all these jobs. But, like, I miss him. So it's, you know 

Okay. I don't think I've ever related to you more. Like, this is literally that's, like, how I have felt in motherhood in a nutshell. Right? I'm, like, Constantly, Kristen, like, okay. I need to find a sitter or I just need a moment. Can I just, like, go have an hour to myself? What am I doing during an hour? Probably looking at phone, like, looking at or thinking about the kids, doing something for them, it's like, uh, that I that is just parenthood in in general.  

Well, Jake, this has all been so inspiring and enlightening, and I'm so happy that you joined me on the podcast today to talk about this and shed a light on your gambling addiction and fatherhood, this is honestly, I know it was a lot like, a year in the making of getting you on the podcast, But a lot of it too is really just me,  understanding you as a father as well. Obviously, I have Josh as the father of my kids, but I don't have a lot of these conversations from the dad's perspective. So I think a lot of it was just me to Dragging my feet into into the unknown of having these conversations. And it's delightful to know that there were so many  commonalities between and dads and what we experience in different times in our life. And I know that people listening are gonna be able to relate to your story in 1 way or the other.

And if not, just hopefully their eyes are opened to an addiction that is very real and can happen to anyone. You've already dropped so much knowledge and so many helpful tips about your experience. But is there anything that you wanna leave for listeners who are moms or dads That might find themselves, in the situation of battling an addiction or maybe their spouse is. 

Yeah. I just  wanna say just know that you're not alone, whatever addiction might be or whatever you're coming to grips with or dealing with every single day. And, you know, the thing is it this is just so important to be honest with yourself, but then also be honest with your family and just just putting that out there that, hey. I'm really struggling with this. Before it gets too late, it's so important, whatever your addiction may be. So, you know, just just know that everyone struggles with something, whether it be an actual addiction or, you know, just something they struggle with. But you would be surprised how many people have addictions.

So it's  important to know you're not alone and tons of resources online, but, you know, the first step is just admitting it to yourself, but then to your loved ones. And, putting all that just power and trust out there to then start the steps of recovery. Because thing is as a parent with addiction, it's it's so important that you work on bettering yourself so your children can see the best version of you, but also they can be the best version of themselves due to you. 

That is so helpful. And I think it's to be mentioned too that, you know, you can be struggling with something like this at any point in your life. Like you said, Was it ideal to come to terms and have this breakdown while your while your wife was pregnant and you were about to be a dad? No. But, like, there's never a good time and there's never a wrong time to seek help. It's never too late. And so I'll  put some resources in the show notes, for anyone who does wanna seek support. But I know this has taught me a lot, and I'm continuing to learn from you and learn about this addiction and how it affects you. And, of course, obviously, I'm here rooting for you and here to support you, and I'm grateful that even my kids will I will have you to turn to when it's time to be aware of these situations as they get older And know that I'm putting my best foot forward parenting. So, hopefully, everyone listening will feel the same.

Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. 

Yeah. Thanks for joining me.

Before you click out of this episode, be sure to check the show notes. There's links to everything in there as always.

You can Join our Facebook community group, follow motherhood intended on Instagram, and so much more. And I will also have an interview with my sister in law's coming your way, and we are talking all things baby. We are gonna hear my 2 sister in law's birth stories, and then we're gonna talk baby stuff. I'm talking like products. What are the best products? What do I need?

It has been A little over 4 years since I have had any sort of newborn stuff in our house. Um, it feels longer than that, to be completely honest. I mean, we all know, like, toddler years are, like, longer. They feel longer. So it really feels like a lifetime ago since I've had a newborn.

So I had such a great time picking their brain about what the best products are, and what they think about different topics as it relates to newborns. So get excited.  As always, feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions or suggestions for episodes, or maybe you yourself wanna be on the show. There's a form in the show notes to be a guest.

And last but not least, if you're in a place where you are struggling to conceive month after month, you're seeing those negative pregnancy tests, and maybe you're getting close to looking into fertility assistance, grab my free month by month guide. There's a link in the show notes, but this guide is it's broken down by months. You don't have to start it in January. You know, my January could be your April. It doesn't matter.

It just kinda breaks it out through the year of little things that you can do to stay calm and confident on your journey to baby. By grabbing that guide, you'll also be signed up for my email list, and we have weekly emails coming out soon. Everything from new recipes to fertility tips, and the latest episodes will be sent right to your inbox. So even if you don't need my month by month fertility guide, feel free to click the link and sign up for emails so you can stay in the loop with the Motherhood Attended podcast.

 Thanks again for joining me with this bonus episode. If you yourself or someone you know is struggling with a gambling addiction, be sure to click the link in the show notes. It'll connect you to local resources for support near you.