Type 1 Diabetes and Surrogacy: Victoria’s Story

Join Jacqueline as she kicks off Season 4 of the 'Motherhood Intended' podcast! On this episode she welcomes her guest, Victoria Fritz, who shares her journey to motherhood via surrogacy after an unexpected diagnosis of type 1 diabetes. Victoria discusses the challenges of medical complications, the process of creating embryos through IVF, and her innovative new company, Baby Bumps, a matching app for intended parents and surrogates. The episode delves into the emotional and practical aspects of surrogacy, the importance of genetic testing of embryos, and insights into navigating relationships with surrogates. Tune in to learn more about the choices and support available for families considering surrogacy.

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GET CONNECTED TO BABYBUMPS:

• Website: www.baby-bumps.org 
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• E-mail: victoria@baby-bumps.org 

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• 8:37 (Cont.) Type 1 Diabetes and Surrogacy: Victoria’s Story

Transcript

Hey friend, it's Jacqueline. Welcome to season four of Motherhood Intended. I'm so excited to be back on the mic regularly each week and I'm happy to have you here to join me. I can't believe that season four is here. It feels like I just started this podcast yesterday and now we're over like 70 episodes in.

Super crazy, but I love being transparent about the production of the show. So anytime I can kind of let you guys into this side of things, I'm here for it. So season four, what does that mean? A new season of the podcast. But what does that mean, Jacqueline?  Well, let me tell you, you might be confused because obviously this podcast isn't like a serial show.

It's not where you have to listen in a specific order. I'm not telling a chronological story. You can bounce around from episode to episode in any order that you'd like. And while I hope you'd listen to every single episode each week and find value in it all, you definitely can pick out the episodes that resonate with you the best or that are on topics that you're really wanting to learn more about.

The reason I break up this podcast into seasons is because I'm basically a one woman show with Motherhood Intended. And I want to make sure I'm giving you the best quality and content possible. So, I break the year into two seasons. While I break into two seasons, I take that time in between to kind of put a pause on recording new content.

And I focus on sourcing incredible guests. researching, improving my podcast practices and production and honestly reflecting on the season previously produced. That way I can take notes and figure out what's working and what I can improve because I want this podcast to continue to evolve and be a really great resource and be entertaining for you guys.

So anytime I can improve it and make it I'm here for it. The other reason that I split it into two seasons each year is because if you've listened to the show you know that I'm a mom and I'm now a mom of three and I'm primarily a stay at home mom outside of my podcasting work.

I also hold a committee position on the PTA at my son's elementary school and I'm on a committee for the annual share remembrance walk So I am busy and of course my kids have activities and all the things, but outside of motherhood intended and all the work that goes into that, my number one job is being a mom.

So in the summer, there's no childcare and I rely a lot on the time that my kids spend at school and taking naps to do most of my work. And that's not how summer goes. When the kids are home, I really want to take that time and enjoy it with my family. So, just wanted to be transparent and let you guys know that's why I take a break,

but I'm excited, everyone's back in school, and I am so ready to be back to this regularly scheduled programming of the podcast. In this season, there's going to be 15 new episodes. You can expect new episodes to drop every Thursday, and then of course, you know, I'll be throwing  some bonus episodes into the mix.

Maybe I meet a new guest or someone I really want to squeeze into this schedule, and I just don't want it to wait till next season. Or maybe there's just something on my mind and I really think that you'll benefit from me sharing about it. In those situations I'm going to be putting out a bonus episode. That being said, make sure you hit that follow button on the podcast app because that way all the new episodes will pop right up for you.

You won't have to like search the show and see if there's anything new on there. It'll just automatically happen for you.   All right, so before I get to my awesome guest for today, I have a few more housekeeping things that I want you to be aware of. For starters, if you really never paid attention to the show notes of the podcast and not just my podcast, any podcast for that matter.

Take a look at that. I always put helpful things in there. Not only, of course, is there a little blurb about what to expect from each episode, but that's where I'll include any helpful links for you. Maybe I talk about some discount codes in the episode, and I'll link those, their products, resources, and more.

Access to the guests that are on here, how you can best reach them. And then of course, there will always be a quick link to the motherhood intended community group on Facebook. So join that if you haven't already. We're on Instagram at motherhood underscore intended as well. You'll see more of my personal life on Instagram and updates on the podcast updates on my own life.

Um, but that's a great way to reach out to me. If you have any personal questions or maybe need advice on something. I am always here for you. As you know, I have a decade of experience in many different facets of infertility, IVF, surrogacy, loss, motherhood, so many things. I am a resource for you. So utilize me,  also in the show notes, you can find a link to learn more about surrogacy. So as you listen to these episodes, you know, I touch on surrogacy a lot because that's a part Part of my personal story.

If it's ever been on your heart to consider being a surrogate, helping attended parents have their own family, I encourage you to check out that link. It's a link to conceive abilities, which is the agency that my family used to pursue surrogacy, and you can earn up to 650 just by taking the first few steps to learn more.

Maybe you're wondering if you even qualify, you'd like to know more about what's involved in being a gestational carrier or a surrogate. Check out conceive abilities. And click that link because even if you don't go through with it, you can still earn some extra money. And of course, you'll learn more about something new, or maybe you can even use that and pass the information along to somebody, you know, in your life who might be interested in surrogacy themselves.

Okay. Speaking of surrogacy, today's episode is with Victoria Fritz. She is a mother to be via surrogacy and a proud alum of UNC Chapel Hill School of Medicine. She shares her story of an unexpected diagnosis of type 1 diabetes.

Being in the medical field, Victoria knew how dangerous a type 1 diabetic pregnancy would be for her and a baby. So after a year of deliberation and tears, she decided to create embryos with IVF and go the surrogacy route to start her family.

It was only then that Victoria learned some of the pitfalls of the surrogacy industry and she wasn't liking the options she had. And that's when Baby Bumps was born. As you'll hear in this episode, Baby Bumps is a two sided market for parents to match with safe, vetted surrogates. No waitlists, no agencies.

Just appreciation and admiration for surrogates delivering the most precious gifts to earth.  You know, in our situation, we did decide to go the agency route and we had a great experience with conceivabilities. Plus we of course were blessed with our rainbow baby Lorelei, but there were definitely hurdles, most notably related to wait times and the cost of utilizing an agency.

I love the company that Victoria started and how it will make surrogacy that much more accessible for intended parents. while also creating a more casual and controllable experience for the surrogate. I'm pleased to share with you Victoria's unique story to motherhood. Take a listen. 

Hi, Victoria. Thanks for joining me on the podcast today.

Hey, thanks for having me. 

Yeah. So you are  intended mother,  via surrogacy just like I was, um, but a very different story. And you know, you and I talked on the phone and I know, and I've learned a lot about you and I can't wait for listeners, to hear your story and, and where you're at today, because this was a situation that wasn't on my radar.

You know, I've come into contact with so many women,  who have. Built their families via surrogacy. But this was a story that,  was not one that I considered or that was on my radar and here on the podcast, we're all about talking about things that, kind of go behind the highlight reel and aren't getting talked about enough. So, let's start from the beginning and just tell me a little bit about yourself and what led you and your husband to surrogacy? 

Yeah, sure. So initially, let's see, I went to medical school at UNC Chapel Hill, and it was a great experience. And then I went to residency, which is like training for doctors in Lexington, and I was doing heart and lung surgery there.

So cardiothoracic surgery, and then Three weeks into residency, I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. So I found myself in the emergency room, but I had been taking care of patients the day before. Now as a patient myself, getting the diagnosis, and it was really hard in the beginning.  And you know, I made the mistake of immediately going home and watching Steel Magnolias. 

I don't know if you've seen that movie, but it's a movie from the eighties or nineties with Dolly Parton. Great film. But basically the short synopsis is it's like a girl who has type one diabetes, gets married, gets pregnant, has a baby and then dies. And so I was very nervous about pregnancy with type one diabetes.

And of course I was a doctor, so I knew it was very dangerous. But I decided that I was going to keep practicing and keep operating. And then one day I was doing a neck incision in the OR and my blood sugar was so low that I almost passed out. And so someone from the OR had to run and go get apple juice from the post op area.

And the nurses were feeding me juice under my mask. And I realized, you know, if I had been operating on the heart, this patient would have died and I had to do something else with my life. So I decided to take a step back from medicine. And then, you know, my husband and I were thinking about, well, how are we going to start our family? 

Something I really wanted. And especially being in the hospital and seeing so many people, you know, go through such struggles in life. I knew that what I wanted more than anything in the world was to be a mother. And I wasn't sure how I was going to do that safely. So we made the decision of carrying our embryo or having our embryo in a surrogate just because it's what's safest for the baby and what's safest for me. But it probably took about a year for me to come to that decision and come to terms with it. I think it like takes people a little bit of time to wrap their heads around it. 

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I know from my experience,  it's kind of like mourning a loss, um, because  you're giving up on, it's just a dream that you thought was going to be like how you created your family.

And I think it's one thing to decide yourself, like, okay, I'm don't want to have kids or I, you know, Um, don't want to have any more kids, but when it's a situation is kind of telling it for you, it's, it's really hard to digest. 

Yeah, definitely. I felt like, you know, I knew right off the bat with the diagnosis that pregnancy would be dangerous.

And like I said, I was doing cardiothoracic surgery. And so we see little babies that have heart defects. And with diabetes, the incidents or the chances of a heart defect in the baby go up a lot higher. And that's just not what I wanted for my child. Um, and so I still needed the time to come to terms with, okay, I'm going to do surrogacy.

And it seems like a big, scary process in the moment because I didn't know anyone who had done surrogacy. It was completely new. I hadn't even known anyone or any of my friends that had done IVF.  Um, and so it was just a bunch of new stuff coming at me all at once.   But now I'm really excited about it. I'm glad I'm doing it. 

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.  You know, it's funny because I, I have friends too in the medical field and it's like, there's so many different avenues  and I just assume like as someone who's not in the medical field that I'm like, well, obviously like, don't you know about fertility and you know about this and that, and there's just like so much to know. Did you know when you like really what that entailed when you were like, okay, we should.  Go the surrogacy route. Did you understand  how that all worked with IVF and  creating embryos and everything? 

No, no idea. So like, I, of course, you know, had gone to med school and I had heard, uh, obese, like, you know, give lectures and talk about it. But I maybe had one lecture about IVF and all of medical school. Right. And I didn't read about it too much. And I was just like, Oh, it just happens. you know, it'll be fine. It'll be easy and perfect. And I had no idea that it's like, no, IVF is weeks long and you go in every other day for blood work and ultrasounds.

And also, even when I had met with our fertility OB or reproductive endocrinologist, When she told me, she was like, Oh, you guys will do IVF. I was in my mind like, Oh no, but like, I'm not trying to get pregnant. So like, that's not what IVF is, right? Right. Yeah. I didn't even know that IVF really is just to create embryos.

So no, I had no idea. And I think, you know, I had heard so many other female doctors talk about fertility issues and reproduction in just kind of like hush tones. And everyone's vaguely worried about it, but feels like, you know, the problem won't happen to them.  And then, you know, I think more and more women are talking about like, oh, you know, these do, these problems do happen and they're real and you don't have to be, you know, quiet or secretive about it.

Right. And I think that's why it's so important. I know I'm glad I'm, we're having this conversation is just to like educate women sooner than later on all these types of things, because I'm sure even in med school, when you were like had that one lecture on IVF, you were like taking it in, but you weren't ever thinking that you were going to be the ones you need IVF.

 I mean, again, like I was on my radar too, and I was like, Oh, that's cute. Like, but you know, I think we'll be good. We'll be fine. 

Yeah. Everyone thinks like, you know, I even actually like remember meeting with, you Um, the minister that married my husband and I, before we got married, and he asked, he was like, you know, are you guys planning on having kids? And I was like, Oh yeah, we are probably like late thirties, early forties, and we'll just do IVF. And I said it very flippantly because I had no idea what a big process it was. And I also had no idea, like, you know, just  the struggles to get healthy embryos at that age. So I'm glad I'm doing it now and doing it sooner. And I wish more women knew about it and they could do it earlier when. You know, just, it's a little bit of an easier process.  

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I've had so many friends that, you know, mid thirties are now like wanting to start their families and, you know, for many different reasons, whether they didn't find their partner yet, or they were busy with their careers and again, had that same like narrative of like, okay, yeah, it's my late thirties.

Once I'm done, once I'm more established, once I'm X, Y, and Z, and then, you know, even throw in a pandemic and that pushed back people's plans a few years too, just because things were so crazy.  I think the media doesn't help either because I think that is the narrative that we hear is like, Oh, well you can just do IVF. You could just do IVF because 

IVF, you can just, you know, get your blood drawn and do an ultrasound the other day and then you're going to have a little surgery and it's an unknown date and you'll find out closer to, you'll get like 24 hours notice. 

Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. I know, even when I was in IVF, I didn't even realize everything that was going on with the IVF I was in. I was, when I, um, did my egg retrieval, I think I had like 23 eggs and I was like, Oh my goodness, I'm amazing. We're going to have all these embryos. Like, I was more stressed about like, what are we going to do with all these embryos? And I was like, okay, we'll figure that out when we get there. And. Wow, obviously, like, that number dwindles down and the amount of embryos you get is, I mean, I think it went down to eight embryos, but we didn't test our embryos and, you know, it wasn't until years later that we had them genetically tested and then they dwindled down even more, which is crazy. So, Because you, that you know of the risks  with type 1 diabetes, you said  increased chance of heart defect for the baby. What are the risks for you and if you were to carry a pregnancy? 

So the risks for me are, uh, kidney problems just because you have like so much sugar going through your body and so much like we call it insulin resistance. It's kind of, a similar process to the type of diabetes people get when they're pregnant, but it's kind of like that on steroids. So  very, very difficult blood sugars to manage. Um, and then, you know, there's always a risk when you're giving a lot of insulin that you give too much and then, you know, you pass out or it hurts your brain, it hurts the baby's brain.

And so I was like, you know, I don't want to worry all the time that I'm going to accidentally like harm me and this baby. Right. And I just want to put my embryo in a place I feel like they're safe, which I think a lot of mothers going through surrogacy feel that way too of like, you know, I just at a certain point want my embryo to be in the safest spot they can be.

Yeah, uh, yes, I totally agree. I mean, you definitely go through the emotions, like you said, you know, first you're like, oh, wow, like, you need to come to terms that you're not going to be the one carrying your baby. Because that's not, that's no one just wakes up and it was like dreams as a little girl, like, I can't wait to have a baby with someone else being pregnant. Like, that's just not natural.

 Honestly, at this point, I've gotten so used to the idea of surrogacy that now I'm like, I can't even imagine. Yeah. Not having another woman like locked into this pregnancy with me as like court and camaraderie I'm like now once you kind of go into the circus world. It's like you can't imagine doing it by yourself 

Yeah,  I wish I had understood and come to grips with surrogacy or someone even presented it to me much sooner because every pregnancy of mine was risky for different reasons. So I couldn't have predicted, but, um, it's not like pregnancy was honestly ever fun for me. Cause there's always stress and worry about the baby, worry about myself.

And after experiencing surrogacy, it is, you get to a point where you're just like, Especially because, you know, going through IVF, like you mentioned, is not like this easy little thing that you do. I mean, it's a whole process. It's tough on your body. It's emotionally draining. It's, it's a lot of things. And so I remember just being, I was just so proud that we had these embryos and these healthy embryos that I want to give this embryo like the best chance possible and the safest chance. So yeah, once you come to that, it's, it's, it's a really great feeling actually knowing that you've got somebody to help you do that safely.

Yeah, absolutely. And I felt like very free after I had like, kind of come to terms with doing surrogacy. And I had initially, you know, when I was thinking about, should I be pregnant? And I kind of knew it was the wrong choice for me, but I was considering it. I talked to high risk OB and that doctor was like, you know, you could, if you wanted to, You maybe shouldn't, but you know, type one diabetics have unplanned pregnancies.

So it does happen, but you know, you can look into other options. And I think once I went to my fertility OB and told her, you know, I think we need to do surrogacy. And she was like, Oh yes, absolutely. I felt this huge weight off my shoulders of not having to question my own decisions. And I felt like a professional or an expert had validated me and it made the process a lot easier.

Yeah, I was kind of in the same position. I mean, I, my high risk doctor was basically like, he didn't tell me no, but he  wasn't psyched about the idea of me ever being pregnant again. And he was like, you know, I just don't know what we would do differently. Could it be fine?  Yeah. Could it be horrible?

Like, yeah. So yeah, it wasn't until I dove in more and then talked to my fertility doctor and was like, yeah, it's a great option for you. You know, you've got these embryos and it is freeing and definitely weight off your shoulders when someone else kind of essentially validates that  decision for you.

Yeah. And I actually had kind of started thinking that we would probably be doing IVF regardless if we had a surrogate or not, because I wanted the embryos to be genetically tested. So here's this relatively new genetic test that's out for embryos and it will tell you their risk of developing like the large number of diseases, including type one diabetes. So I didn't want to pass this disease onto my children. And I wanted to know that they were going to be as healthy or at least have the best like odds of being healthy as possible.

Um, but with that being said, it's like, you know, like you mentioned, when you start doing genetic testing, your kind of number of like healthy embryos dwindles down or, and I wasn't like expecting that because we're, my husband and I are both 29. And so in my mind, I thought like, Oh, we're going to have like Two dozen like embryos.

We're just going to have this like of embryos and that's not really how it works. It's like a good number of eggs  fertilized and then a certain number of mature. And then a certain number are like genetically normal than a certain number of genetically healthy. And your numbers just start going down and down and down.

But I feel like it makes me feel. The most secure knowing that I'm giving these embryos the best chance that I possibly can. And I feel like I'm doing right by my future children in the best way I know how. 

That makes total sense. I, I think, um, I think anyone going through IVF and I say this now kind of preachy just because I didn't test the embryos right away. And somehow my, both of my sons,  were just randomly selected from our embryos and they happened to be two,  healthy, normal embryos, but we could have been, they, they could have selected non healthy embryos. And after testing them, we learned there was some serious health issues with some of those embryos.

And, you know, it either would have, um, Not been viable with life or the transfer what IVF would have wouldn't have worked and honestly, we were already coming off of  a year of infertility and losses. So, like, it would have been devastating. And I tell people this all the time because I'm like,  once you decide you're going to go the IVF route, or you're going to, Test embryos for one reason or another like I think that's like the best way to do it is test your embryos because infertility and IVF it affects not just your body and it's not just like the cycle it's like very emotional and it affects your mental health to going through that So the more you can minimize and know that you're making the best choices and that are the smartest choices that you can  I think the better 

Yeah. And I didn't even know about these like new tests that existed for them. 

I have no idea. Yeah. 

Yeah. The new one is called  PGTP. It's like a bigger, more extensive version of like the kind of classic embryo health tests. So I'm glad it exists. And I had someone tell me that a lot of times even surrogates prefer genetically tested embryos because they want, you know, what we all want, which is a healthy baby to go home with the parents.

 Totally. And that's exactly why  we tested our embryos. We had to test our embryos in order to move forward with our surrogacy agency. Um, and I mean, we were happy to do so because again, surrogacy is also a big undertaking and we wanted to make sure we were putting, you know, our best embryo forward and getting the best chance, at bringing home a healthy baby.

So type one diabetes, obviously you didn't, know you had this. Um, Or were diagnosed with this until your 20s. Is this something that's hereditary or 

what it is,  they, you know, they don't know exactly where it's from. They know there's a lot of genes that are associated with type one diabetes. And there's, I think a thought that like potentially something can happen in your environment that can trigger the genes to turn on.

And so we have no idea what that would have been for me or really for anybody, but, um, Type one diabetes used to be called juvenile diabetes. It was really only children who were diagnosed with it.  Now, over time, I've heard that recently, I think as of last year, there were more people that were diagnosed with type one diabetes over the age of 18 than under.

I know, right? And so it's definitely growing in the adult population. I have no idea why, um, but I think it's an issue that will come up more and more about if you're, you know, in your earlier mid twenties and you're diagnosed with type one diabetes. And you want to start a family, what is that going to look like?

Yeah, it definitely sounds like, you know, a lot of education is, it should be good to be surrounded around that, especially, you know, that's definitely not something you're thinking about in your early twenties when you're wanting to start a family or what the effects are. Even if you have it yourself, you know, you're probably thinking like, okay, how can I manage this?

For, you know, because I feel like you, you knew more than the average, I'd say just with your medical background. But if someone is diagnosed with, you know, type one diabetes in their early twenties, you're like, okay, what do I need to do for me? You might not be thinking like, how is this going to affect my children or my pregnancy or anything? So I think talking about this more is, is great to put it on women's radars. 

Yeah, just to let them know they have the option to do, like, whatever they feel like is right for them. Because there's not only, there's not one option available to you, um, and, you know, if doing the high risk pregnancy is not right for you and your family, you don't have to. There's other choices. So I'm glad it's available, um, I'm very grateful for the surrogates who will do this. Yeah. I think it's really, like, selfless and incredible that somebody would do this for us. 

For sure. I'm still in awe. I'm like, how, how do these women exist? It's amazing. And then like going through the experience and watching delivery and just witnessing just the whole pregnancy, it's just, it's wild. And I, I've never had a good experience with pregnancy. And so to watch somebody, um, just kind of do it so flawlessly too and just enjoy it and um, 

you know, it's paper power. It's incredible. 

Yes. Yes. I think it is. I literally. It is a superpower 

in a gross, like with IVF, um, I was like, Oh, I feel like kind of nauseous and bloated. 

And I was like, you know, I'm,  I'm sure everyone feels like at a certain point during pregnancy, but I was like, I'm like, so in awe that there's people that like just flawlessly like can do an entire pregnancy and delivery and like stick the landing. And it's like, so incredible to me that they would choose for other people.

Yeah, I, it is wild. That's why I'm still like dumbfounded that  there are the women out there that do this, but it also  it made my decision feel like even better watching our surrogate be pregnant and, and through her delivery and everything, because I was like, wow, like that is, it should be  more like that. That is not my experience. Like, I really struggled through every aspect of getting pregnant and being pregnant and delivering, like, it shouldn't have to be that way. And  watching someone else do it like flawlessly was just eye opening, for sure. 

And I feel like it must feel good to feel like you made the right choice for your child of like watching them, like, essentially, it's like, you know, good to be like this easy breezy, like, healthy, happy fetus, basically. And like, 

yes, 

through the pregnancy easier and I sometimes think about surrogacy as kind of similar to people who  have to send their child to like a family member because they're not able to take care of them or if they're like, you know, working in an unsafe area or something like that.

And so you put your child where you believe they're the safest and where they're going to have like the best experience. And I think surrogacy is kind of similar to that. It's just like. Right before the beginning of life. 

Yeah, totally.  That's a good way to look at it because I, that's totally what it is. And it feels good. I, I, I didn't think I would feel this good about it. I thought it would actually be a lot harder for me. But like you said, when you're You already feel like you're doing the best as a mom to know that your baby is safe before they're even have even arrived. It's, it's incredible. And I think it's normal to be skeptical about surrogacy at first too. I know  when we started looking into the process and telling family members what we were doing and things like that, you know, there was so many questions, which some were ridiculous in my perspective, but like some were, some were fair.

Um, all of it's just a lack of knowledge. Um, yeah. But you know, there was a lot of concerns like well, what if she wants to keep the baby and what if you know she's just doing it for the money and this and that and like there were  some Things before I learned about surrogacy that I was like, yeah Why would anyone do this like it seems so selfish like they're just doing it for the money or this or that but  the second I talked to our surrogate and even a few families that we were trying to match with, I was like, there is no way that like anyone is doing this just for the money. It's a big deal. You know, someone is literally risking their health. Even if they've had flawless pregnancies before every pregnancy, there's risk. 

Yeah. Surrogates also, I would say, remind me so much of like the kind of people that would give you a kidney. 

Yes. Yeah. 

People who it's like, you know, they will take a risk with their health, even though maybe it's a smaller risk for them. But to do something like so selfless for somebody else, that's so meaningful. 

Yeah. 

It's incredible to me. And I felt the same way where I had a lot of like anxiety about surrogacy and there's a lot of unknowns. And yeah, I think the first thing everyone asks is like, what if they want to keep the baby?

Right. 

And then, you know, I realized it's like, I've heard surrogates always ask, like, their biggest concern is, like, what if the parents don't take the baby?  Literally everyone wants the baby to go home with the parents. 

Yes. 

And I also kind of, like, had to explain to my family and other people that, like, you know, surrogates are very fertile women, um, like, they could have their own baby if they wanted to, they don't want, like, if they wanted to have another baby, they would have their baby.

Exactly. Yeah. And you kind of forget that,   when you're going with an agency or making, um, an educated decision with a match, you know, these are women who have had babies of their own or have had to, I know, like our agency, absolutely. They've had to have kids of their own, um, and, you know, so. Our circuit, like she's a mom, like she knows and she loves her kids and she can't imagine not being a mom to them. So like helping somebody else grow their family is just,  it's a natural thing. You know, they have these, the same feelings that you do because they're moms as well.

Yeah. I like, I find it kind of funny cause I now. Don't worry about like the process of surrogacy in terms of pregnancy, but I like have a little bit of worries around like, you know, bringing the baby home when I'll be like, it'll be the first time. Like I'm making the decisions that are like taking care of the baby. And I'm like, Oh, I worry about, you know, just the process of like, how do I get them home? Are we driving? Are we flying? Like what's the best choice? What are we doing with like breastfeeding or formula? And so I don't have any anxieties anymore about like, Our future surrogate being pregnant, like, I'm sure that's going to go well, and I trust whoever that person will be.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I learned that in a different way. Our oldest son was born at 24 weeks, and so he spent the first four months of his life in the NICU, and I'll never forget bringing him home, like, It was something, you know, we waited for so long and we needed him to be healthy, and he had to have some surgeries and all the things.

But then the second that I was getting nervous to bring him home, because again, kind of the same thing, his first four months life. I was like, wait a minute, like we don't have any nurses around the clock helping us. We have to  make sure he's okay. All these things. So it's definitely An adjustment period 

like safety blanket there knowing they're right there.

Yeah. Yeah. But even when I feel like you are the one carrying the pregnancy, you'll still have the same thoughts once they're there, you're like, Oh, like now what? Every, I think every parent goes through that. Like now what do we do? So when you decided that surrogacy was the route for you, how did you get started? started. Where did you go to look? I mean, I know there's, there's independent journeys.  You can go with an agency. Maybe you've looked to somebody in your own life. How did you get started with that?

 So I really did not know what to do when I was first getting started. I like told our fertility OB about the surrogacy thing. She was like, I think that's a good choice. We went with it. And she told me, she was like, okay, go find someone or, you know, do whatever you want to do. And I had no idea where to start. I think It's like a very daunting task to figure out like, okay, where do I find a surrogate? If you have no idea how this process works. 

And so basically I started on Google and of course I found agencies and then I found the Facebook groups, which I mean, I looked through those, but I felt so nervous about, you know, who is on here. Like really anyone can be on Facebook. I just. Didn't feel safe choosing just somebody like off of social media.

And so we decided to go with an agency, but with that comes like a big expense and this really long wait list. So our wait list is expected to be over a year or about a year, a little bit more, maybe up to a year and a half. Um, and you know, I understand why it is that way, but of course we want to bring home a baby as quickly as we can.

Yeah. And so I actually have decided to start a new company called Baby Bumps and basically it is a dating app for surrogacy. So parents and surrogates are going to be able to make profiles, they'll be screened, vetted, and then you can match independently. Um, and we are actually launching the first version of that. In late September, 2024. And so we'll be looking for beta testers. So anybody who wants to just try it out for free and give us their feedback and ideas, opinions on what it looks like, I'd be happy to get in touch with them. 

That's so cool. Uh, honestly, as someone who's gone through the experience and  we went through an agency, we  thought about doing the independent route, but. again, didn't know where to get started. And we already had two kids, young kids at home. And so it just was a lot to take on. So we went with an agency, but knowing we had to wait. So we started the whole process, you know, only months after, after losing a baby. And we weren't like emotionally ready, but after like doing some research, we're like, Oh, wow. Like this is going to be a while before we bring home a baby. So  definitely started the process before we were ready. But, we were quoted the same about 18 months to get matched. It ended up only taking months. I say only, which is still a long time, 11 months just to get matched. And then, you know, it's a whole process. There's all these screenings and of course,  medications, embryo transfer, pregnancy. I mean, it was like two years before we brought a baby home. 

With our agency before we even had embryos, just because I knew it was going to be such a long process. And I was like, well, I guess I'll make embryos in the meantime.  But yeah, it's such a long process that I was like, you know, I feel like we just have to start getting going and we probably weren't really ready,  to do it either just because we had had so many life changes in terms of me changing my career. Um, but that timeline was so daunting that I felt like we had to make a move. 

Yeah, that makes, that makes sense. And that's actually really awesome that you are with an agency that allowed you to like create embryos in the meantime, I could be wrong, but I thought we had to have at least two healthy embryos before, Starting a process, which luckily in our situation, we already had frozen embryos. But for somebody who hasn't even got there yet, you know, it's going to just push things back even more, which is crazy.

 Like you have to, yeah. And IVF is many months,  but no, it's not. It's like, you know, and even sometimes just getting in to see a fertility, it'll be. That can be a six month wait. 

Yeah, for sure. And  for anyone who's  starting their family this way, you know, if you want more than one child to, you know, having the ability to speed things up is just awesome because we thought about that too. I mean, we still have two healthy embryos.  And, um, you know, I, we don't know. I don't, I don't know if that's going to be in the cards for us. I, we would love one more. We always talked about four kids, but obviously life happens in this situation is not what we expected. Um, but we just, the surrogacy experience was just so amazing to us and bringing home a healthy baby and she's been wonderful. She's four months old now. And it's just knowing we had those embryos.

It's so tempting to just be like, Oh my gosh, how can we figure this out? I mean, it's, it's, it's.  It's so expensive,  which is hard.  But the wait time is a big thing too. Cause you know, when we think about what we did with our agency, it's just, we would have to start it now. I mean, like, we're also getting older too, and we don't want three more years to pass before completing our family.

So it's kind of one of those things. It's, it'd be awesome to have your app because it's like, Okay, well, just we can match faster. We can do it on our own cut out agency fees, you know, I, I think this app will also be helpful to those who have already gone through the surrogacy process and are more confident in how it all works.

I think so too. It's like, once you kind of already know how, you know, the roads a little bit, it's easier to go out on your own and also. You know, one of the ways that we're keeping the app from having a waitlist is it's kind of a values based company. And so what's really important to us is that the parents have a lot of like appreciation and admiration for their surrogates.

And so we want people who feel good bonds with the surrogates and you don't have to be like best friends and go to each other's like this every year. But like, People that are open to communication and open to sharing like bits of the, you know, kind of baby's life after surrogacy, even if it's just like a Christmas card or that sort of thing.

So that way it's like, you know, the parents in the surrogates can have a good relationship together. And I think the process of surrogacy is like, A beautiful, amazing process. And I want it to be celebrated and I want to have a company that celebrates that and then, you know, parents and surrogates who feel the same way.

 That's amazing.  That makes me think about how, you know, I think anyone listening, who's going through surrogacy, that that's a good point. Like just to know that like every surrogate. Every surrogacy journey is different and every match relationship is going to be different. I know for me, like, on social media, I would always see these, like, besties,  becoming,  intended mom and surrogate and doing all the reels and, like, this whole, like, crazy experience. And I was like, I love our surrogate, but we're not, that's not, that's not,  She's a mom of two kids. I am a mom of two kids. 

That is not what our relationship is. And for a while, there was a couple of points in the pregnancy when things weren't as exciting, you know, like it wasn't the beginning. It wasn't the end. We were kind of just like smooth sailing. And so we didn't have a lot of updates with each other. And we just, we always checked in via text and, you know, We chat, but when we had a kind of a lull of like, what are, what's there to talk about right now? Is this going well? Like, I remember thinking like, oh my gosh. Like I see all these  women on social media that are just like,  hanging out with their surrogate all the time. And e everyone's, I.  situation and relationship is different. And, what you mentioned is kind of how we are. I mean, our daughter's four months old. Once a month we catch up, I send her a photo of our daughter and, um, you know, ask how her kids are doing and we follow each other on social media and stuff. It's kind of like a  long distance friendship. 

I think too. It's like maybe like a friend. High school or a friend from college,  check in a little bit and you just let them know like how life is going and like you wish them well and you know, you kind of have like a distant like connection.

Yeah, totally. And I think even,  as the years go on, I can only assume maybe we'll speak less and less, but like we've made so many memories together, especially during the year of her like being pregnant. I have like a whole scrapbook to show my daughter cause that's important for us. We want her to know.  The selfless woman and her family that brought her into the world. And,   our sons have met, her and her family. And, and that was really important to us. So I think it's just important to say that anyone listening, you know, every match, every relationship is different and everyone has the same goal. It's to get your baby here safely. 

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I, yeah, I'm really excited. I actually now have really started to like the idea that like, There will be, my child's surrogate, like, always in the world, and there's going to be another person out there that I feel my child would be safe with, that I feel like they have in their corner, and I like the idea that, like, You know, there's just as many people there to support my child as possible.

 It is a really special relationship. And I also love the idea of like being able to educate our own kids and especially like my daughter, like that these options are out there and this woman was just so selfless and you know, it's, it's a really special and unique story, which is 

I think even with my daughter, I've already thought about, you know, I want, I've already started thinking like, Oh, I'd want her to freeze her eggs when she's younger, just because, you know, it's such a big deal. And, you know, people I think sometimes wait a little later and then they have to, you know, go through these really hard processes of like embryo freezing, egg freezing. And I remember, like I mentioned, like being in the hospital and we're all, you know, kind of getting into our late twenties, early thirties, mid thirties.

And people are talking about the idea of egg freezing, but everyone's kind of like afraid to do it in a way, even where doctors were still afraid to do it. We feel like, Oh, that's something like I don't really know about, or maybe that's something like I'll never need, I'll be different, but it's so important to, I think, just like do it when. It's possible for you when you're young, just to make life as seamless as it can be. 

I agree. I think young women should know this option because again, like you're not going to be old enough or mature enough to really understand, what you're doing by freezing your eggs or what that looks like until it's almost too late. Like every OB and everyone is always ready to be like, Oh, 35. Are you going to think about having kids? And it's like, Well, I wish you would have told me like 10 years ago when I should have frozen my eggs. So, 

yeah, I, I honestly thought, like I mentioned, like, I really thought that I was going to start trying to get pregnant at the age of 39 and I thought it would happen the first month seamlessly, flawlessly.

Yeah. Then I thought I'd have another baby at 42. Like. Without any stress, without any issue. And now I'm like, that's so not realistic. I have no idea why that perception, but it was just because I didn't know. And now I'm glad we're freezing embryos now, but you know, we're 29. I wish we had done it a few years ago.

Yeah, I have so many friends in the same situation and a lot of times it's just like, yeah, they built their career or they haven't met their significant other until they were like 30. And it wasn't, they were just like, when I find my person  and now they're having trouble, you know, getting pregnant. So yeah. , I think that there's only benefits to freezing your eggs. You're not on a timeline. And I think it's just like, it's a very generational thing too, right? I mean, like as women, we are, you know, doing more schooling and we are advancing our careers and focusing on other things. And, um, it's not like our parents or even generational for that, where you're like getting married at like 20 and having children right away.

 Yeah, I've like thought before that I was like, Oh, when my daughter is, you know, like 16 or 18 or whatever, I'm going to start thinking about like, Oh, when should we freeze her eggs? We do it like before college after college, like, should we go on a little trip afterwards? Yeah,  excited to do it. And I was like, Oh, it's funny, because I'm sure My parents never looked at me at 18 and thought, when should we freeze her eggs? 

No, if anything, it was more preached like, don't get pregnant. Don't get pregnant.  Go to school. Don't get pregnant.  

My parents were more like, let's get an IUD.

Yeah. Where's your birth control? 

So you're on birth control. Um, very different.  Well, I'll probably be thinking like, let me get her on birth control, but also let me freeze these eggs. 

Yeah, totally. Totally. It's, it's very interesting. The different perspectives for And truthfully, I wasn't thinking about my eggs. I just always knew I wanted a big family and I wanted, I didn't want to be older. I watched my parents be young parents and then I was watching them like thrive in their fifties. And so that was the only reason, I mean, we started, I got married at 25 and we waited a year to try to have a family. And so when three years passed, I mean, I wasn't thinking at that point, I wasn't even thinking, you know, my egg quality, I was just thinking like, I wanted to be a mom like three years ago, like what's going on.

So I think I just got lucky because, you know, I, I mean, I, I was 29 too, when I did IVF, just kind of, on our own personal timeline of things. But, um, I definitely wasn't thinking like, Oh, my egg quality is like diminishing, you know? 

Yeah. I know. It's like, not something you think about as you're going through it, but I think you've like made a good point of, as soon as your brain is fully developed and you can really understand those concepts, it's almost too late for your, like  your ovaries. It's like your brain and your ovaries are on different timetables and that makes it really hard. 

Yeah, for sure. I'm glad we're talking about this because this is like real, real life problems. And I've talked to so many women who are in this situation when it's too late. Okay. So with the app,  the intended parents create a profile, surrogate creates a profile. How does the matching work? Are you like browsing or 

yeah. So there's not going to be a matching fee, but basically what it is is we'll be just like a dating app. Um, so a lot like hinge or Bumble or whatever. So it's like, there'll be, you know, if you're a parent, you'll look through your surrogate profiles. If you're a surrogate, you'll look through parent profiles. And I'm planning on having like pictures, videos, like things you like. And then like, of course, like the, you know, hard nuts and bolts of it, of like, how many embryos do you have? Like, where do you live? What state are you in? That sort of thing. But it'll be a way for people to chat and connect before they match. Because I also feel like it's such an important relationship and it's such an intense relationship that happens so soon because it's very rare that you meet somebody. And, you know, three months later, they're pregnant with your baby. 

Yeah. 

I mean, it's pretty rare. It's a pretty intense relationship to happen so quickly.

Yes. 

And, you know, what I would want is to be able to chat with somebody beforehand and also sometimes do, you know, chat with different people and see like, who do I feel like I have a good bond with? So that way you don't have that pressure of like having to say yes to a match that maybe you don't feel is perfect for you. You have like a little bit of space and time to breathe. And see, you know, who's the right fit for us. 

 I think that's fantastic because you're right. There is a little bit of, especially with long wait times, there is this pressure to kind of like be more okay with the match that's presented to you. Cause you don't want it to take any longer. I mean, we were presented with a first profile and we didn't end up talking to them because we were like, this doesn't seem like just on paper. It doesn't even seem like a good fit for us. But we were a little hesitant. We're like, Oh man, does this mean like, we're going to have to wait.  So many more months.

I mean, we went with our gut and we said no, and it was within the, but still within another month that we were presented with another profile and luckily that did feel good  from the get go. But it was like, we read the profile. We got back to them. We had a call. a FaceTime meeting, you know, and the surrogate had to agree as well. You know, it's a mutual match. Yeah. And then we chatted on FaceTime and then we each party had 24 hours to kind of get back to the agency with like, this is a good fit for us. And then we both had to agree. And so it felt very like not natural. 

I feel like it's a little bit of kind of like an arranged marriage by the agencies. And I understand why they do that, but it's like, it's not what I would choose for myself. 

Yeah. It's definitely more like speed dating, like sit down, talk, and then like make a decision, except it's a very big decision.  Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, it is a very intense relationship from the start. Cause it within, I mean, once we matched, I felt like things moved very quickly. And once our surrogate became pregnant and moved even quicker, um, and it was like, you know, within a month or two of matching, you know, we're with her at our fertility clinic, um, putting our embryo inside of her. Like it was, it's a very intimate thing. And I'm like, 

you would never do that with like another relationship where it's the first time you meet somebody being like, Oh, tell me everything about your medical history. Tell me everything like about your relationship, about your family, about your kids. Like, let me just dig into your life. 

Yeah. 

Very unnatural thing to do. So I feel like the pressure coming off of that a little bit will be beneficial for everyone, for the surrogates and for the families just to like have a little bit of space to breathe. And some options, just so you kind of like know who's out there, who do I jive with,  I thought it too, I'm like, it's so funny, you know, having, like meeting somebody and then a few months later, like they come with you for you to like get pregnant, you know, in the, In the doctor's office. I'm like, nowhere else would that ever happen except surrogacy. 

I know. It's a very surreal experience. Um, and delivery is even crazier. It's, it's, it's intense. I mean, it's truly amazing, but it's like, wow. Especially our delivery, it was a party, like her whole family was like her whole family was there. Her husband, I mean, like there was, there was a lot of us in the room and which was So special and great, but it was like, you're very aware that like, Oh, this is, this is a very unique situation.

 I have like, I've imagined the delivery. Um, and I'm, you know, of course, hoping that it's like a healthy, smooth, easy delivery. And I just, you know, I wonder  what it's going to look like only because of course, like, you know, I've. I delivered babies as a medical student, but I was very nervous delivering a baby. Like that's, I, I wasn't nervous in surgery, but I was very nervous delivering babies. Yeah. And then my husband, Marshall is very afraid of blood.

Okay.

I don't know why he like, you know, I guess maybe he chose a surgeon so I could handle the blood side of life.  But I wondered, I was like, I don't know if he's going to handle like a delivery while I was like, he might have to look away. 

Yeah. Oh, don't worry. My husband was the same way. And, uh, yeah, he was like, we were both like, Top by her shoulders and, um, you know, we had a whole birth plan that we talked with our agency about and, um, it, nothing really went to plan. I mean, like the main things were fine, but nothing really went to plan. Even me. I got nervous. I originally said that I was going to cut the cord. My husband was like, I am not going to do that. Um,  and, uh, and he wasn't really given the opportunity with other kids cause I had a C section and then like in a very abrupt delivery. And, um, And so that was new for him.  And now it's not even his wife. You know, he was just like, I'm good on that. And so I was like, you know, I want to be as close to this pregnancy as possible. And this was like a couple of months before I was like, I will cut the cord.  And then as it was all happening, not only was I like just bawling, but I was just like shaking.

And like, I was like, I'm, I'm good. Like, I just want to hold my baby. Can you just like handle that and cut the cord? And then it just didn't go to go to nothing, like really went to plan. And then I felt like. One of the nurses was like, Oh, come here.  Like baby's being born. Like you can see her head. And like, we already had this whole discussion and our surrogate even said it to like, she's comfortable with us, like by her, by her head and everything. And we were on the same page with that,  but they didn't, the doctors and nurse didn't get the memo. And so. 

Yeah. Also, I feel like sometimes the doctors and nurses, like, you know, we just forget that like, this might be jarring to people or like, people might want some privacy.

Right. Yeah, 

we're so close. We're so used to just being like so close to people. We're like, oh, we don't think anything of this, right? 

And it's like a unique situation. Anyway that they're not like seeing every day. So yeah, 

exactly And then also it's like, you know, it's it's a little bit different because it's like, you know, it's not like You're her spouse and you guys have made an agreement, like, we're going to stay at the shoulders.

Yeah. Like we're all on the same page. And, and, but then I felt weird cause it's like, it's my baby. I didn't want the nurse to think I'm like, don't want to see my baby, but I want to be respectful. It was just,  and truthfully in the moment, like no one cared, like surrogate didn't care that we were down there. Like no one, it's such a. unique and beautiful experience that like you can have all the plans in the world and once you're in there and they all kind of like go to the wayside because everyone's just happy and crying and just yeah it's just so eventful 

like a culmination of this like intense year long experience yes like everyone just like takes a deep breath for like different reasons and it's It's, it's pretty cool. But I really love the idea of the baby bumps app , that is so smart. And it had me thinking too, cause like our  agency did, you know, help us in the beginning. Like give us honestly like emailed us like PDFs and ways to start the relationship and like talk about these things or you can do this or that.

And, um, You know, it was helpful, I guess, to have on our radar, but it wasn't really natural. And an app is like what we're on our phones. Like it was way more natural for me to like, move everything to text and just kind of like be me and like text this new friend. And so I love the idea of. Binding and chatting with people before you are like, yeah, diving into the whole thing. That's so smart. 

 Because also it's like, then you kind of know, like each other's personalities and you kind of know if it's a good fit. Cause it's so important. I think to like have that personality match, if you can get it. 

Yeah. 

And it's like, you know, if it's possible to do that, that's what I want to do.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Victoria, thank you so much for this conversation. I've learned a lot. I hope listeners have too.  Where can people best get in touch with you. And of course I'll share everything baby bumps. So, anyone listening who's interested in going that route can find you.

 We are www. baby bumps. org. And then you can also find us on Instagram at hello underscore baby bumps. And my email is victoria at baby bumps. org. So you can get in touch with me any way you'd like. And I'm happy to chat with anybody. And if there's any parents or surrogates out there that want to test the app and give me their opinions on it and, you know, be the first to try it and have a hand at influencing how it's developed, I'd be happy to get in touch with them.

 Amazing. I will link to everything so people can easily do that. Thanks so much for sharing your story and for educating listeners on, type one diabetes and, and a safe route to go if you  have this diagnosis and are considering pregnancy. I really, really appreciate it.

Yeah, I'm happy to do it. Thanks for having me. 

Thanks for listening to this week's conversation. I hope you found value in this episode. If you're on the path to starting your family via surrogacy, be sure to do your research and consider your options. Surrogacy is not a one size fits all for every intended parent. Some will decide to go the agency route, others might know someone personally, and maybe decide to do an independent journey.

And now, as you heard, there is the option of baby bumps. I think it is so cool that there is now this organic way for intended parents to match with surrogates, and surrogates to match with intended parents, all on an app, which is so fitting for 2024. As promised, you can find Victoria's information linked in the show notes.

So if you're interested in trying out the Baby Bumps app, she is taking on beta testers like she mentioned, and of course I'm sure she's happy to answer any questions as it relates to the surrogacy process and what Baby Bumps can do for you.  Be sure to tune into next week's episode as I welcome Aly Dabbs to the podcast.

Aly is a sleep consultant and the founder of Restful Baby. We're talking all things baby sleep, toddler sleep, parent sleep, which is a very important topic. As we all know, everybody functions best when they're getting the most restful sleep, and Aly is here to help parents do just that. She's another incredible mom, woman, entrepreneur, who found herself struggling with something, and instead of just looking for solutions, she became the solution. And now she's helping parents get the restful sleep that they deserve.

So tune in next week, it's going to be a great episode. And before you click out of your podcast app, be sure to click the link in the show notes to sign up for our emails. That's right. If you are wanting a little bit more for motherhood intended  I'm going to be sending out a weekly newsletter and it's going to include things like links to the latest episode. Life Hacks, Mom Tips, Fertility Facts, Recipes, Discounts, and more.

So click the link, get on the email list so you don't miss out. Alright, that's all I have for you today. As always, have an awesome weekend, and I'm excited to be back next week with new content for you. Talk to you then!