A Doula's Guide to Crafting the Perfect Birth Plan

In this episode, Jacqueline interviews Suzzie Vehrs, a doula and childbirth educator, who shares her expertise on creating personalized birth plans. Suzzie explains the importance of having a birth plan, how to communicate effectively with healthcare providers, and the impact of these plans on postpartum experiences. This episode serves as an informative guide for expecting mothers, especially those who have faced infertility or pregnancy loss, empowering them to take control and make informed decisions for a positive birthing experience.

GET CONNECTED TO THE PODCAST:

• Sign up now for the Motherhood Intended Email List!
• Join our FREE Motherhood Intended Community
• Follow @motherhood_intended on Instagram
• Leave a review for the podcast
• Apply to be a guest on the show

GET CONNECTED TO SUZZIE VEHRS:

• Website: www.shebirthsbravely.com
• Instagram: @shebirthsbravely
• Email: contact@shebirthsbravely.com

This episode is sponsored by Restful Baby.
Aly Dabbs is a certified sleep consultant and the founder of Restful Baby. She helps struggling moms get back the rest they need. Aly gives you the tools and support you deserve to create a successful and peaceful sleep routine for your toddler. You do not need to accept exhaustion as your new normal! Podcast listeners get $50 off a sleep package, so set up your consult with Aly today!

Transcript

Hey, thanks for joining me for this episode. I am recording this intro at, oh, I don't know, 10 30 at night. And, that was not the original plan. So I am pulling every ounce of energy I have left of the day. Because I want to come at you in real time. 

I always pre record my interviews, but when it comes to my intros and outros or anything I have to say for the week,  A few days before the episode is going to release because I like to think I'm talking to you in real time. And if there's anything that I want to update you on in my life or anything that's going on in the world that I want to talk about, I want to make sure it's timely.

Now I'm fully aware that like you could be finding this episode years from when I record it, but you know, it makes me feel better that I am talking to you this week because we're all friends around here And I'm happy you're joining me on this episode.  So sorry if I sound tired. I feel like I always think I sound a certain way, like, Oh, I sound sick.

I sound this and that. And, then I listened to it back and I'm like, I don't know, maybe that was in my head. Maybe that was in my head. But for the record, I am very, very tired. And if you have listened to the show for a while now, you know my story, you know my background, you know about my family, you know about my children, you know about my losses, You know, that September is a pretty heavy month for me. It's different every year based on what's going on in my life, where I'm at in my journey with grief and healing trauma and, where we're at in our family building.

And, you know, it, it feels different every year, but it always hits me when I least expect it, you know, and a lot of times it's a month full of so much joy and so much sadness, just like, Colliding into one. If you've experienced the loss of a pregnancy or a baby or a child, you can, I know you can relate.

Or even if you've experienced like a failed IVF cycle. I mean, there is so much grief surrounding that. Grief is just like longing for something and it's just all this love with like nowhere to go. I read something along those lines at one point in my journey and it really resonated with me because I'm like, you're right.

I'm not just like walking around sad. I just have all this love and it's just as like nowhere to go. And even now, when I find myself in a season of life with so much love to give and a full house with three kids, our first daughter at home,  joining our family.

And it's just, I thought I was good at the beginning of this month. In fact, I recorded a bonus episode that I have not put out because. I got to re listen to it. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, those are my feelings in the moment, but now two weeks have passed and I feel completely different. So needless to say, I'm feeling all the things because September 5th is the anniversary of losing our daughter, Charlotte.

September 18th is the anniversary of losing our daughter, Cecilia. Those were our twins. They would be eight this year, which is insane to me. And then September 26th is It's the anniversary of losing our daughter, Maren, who would be three this year. And now that we have Lorelai at home with us, she is now five months old.

I just look at her and not only am I just like bursting at the seams with gratefulness and just awe that she is ours and she is here. But I also look at her with sadness because I just look at her and think, wow. I wish I could know who our other daughters would have been.

You know, I'll always, I'll always wonder. And then I feel a little sad that she does not have a sister, you know, Hunter and Noah have each other. And, and Lorelai is so, so lucky to have her big brothers. They have been so cute and adorable with her. They're obsessed. But I grew up with a sister and it's hard for me to imagine her not having one.

So all the feelings I'm dealing with, which has often put me in a state of like freeze mode. I don't know if you've ever experienced this when you just are kind of filled with so much anxiety that like, it's like you just do nothing.   And I'm only like one or the other.

I'm either like spending a day, like doing all the things around the house and being productive with our family. Or I'm doom scrolling my phone, or I am just crushing it with work and getting so much done with the podcast, or I am putting things off. So it's been a wild ride and I'm exhausted emotionally.

I am trying my best to just stay positive and, you know, grateful through September.  My husband and I on September 7th did have our 11 year wedding anniversary, I mean, we haven't, we haven't even done anything. I think we were trying to squeeze in a date night at some point this month.

But it's actually been okay. The month in that regard has been very reflective. You know, I feel like we're in a really good spot and we've just been enjoying our family. Um, And friends and being really positive about the future holds for us and our family. So, lot has happened in 11 years. But I'm very lucky, to be going on this ride with Josh.  So that is why I am all off my game this week. And I am now recording at 10 30 PM instead of going to sleep because I have not gotten enough done. Anyway, I hope you can relate.

I am so happy you're here to join me for this episode because I'm welcoming on Suzzie, who is a doula and childbirth educator. Who is passionate about helping moms create a birth they love. She's passionate about helping moms gain confidence in their body, in their ability and in their team.

She believes prevention in the form of movement and nutrition is foundational to a healthy pregnancy and that all moms can handle contractions like a boss and that there are safe ways to use epidural and inductions if that is the mom's preference.

We are talking about birth plans in this conversation, and it is just so, so fascinating to me because this was not something that was on my radar. Every pregnancy journey of mine has been completely different, and truthfully, a birth plan was never part of any of them, really, until we had Lorelai with the help of our gestational surrogate.

And sitting down with our agency and our surrogate and discussing the details of a birth plan really opened my eyes to all the options and choices and things that you can take control of in your birthing plan. My plan was always like just stay pregnant for as long as I can because I had losses and I had a micro preemie and with Noah, that was the  closest plan I had, but it was really just like the plan was, okay, schedule a c section at 37 weeks and get to that point.

But with Lorelei, man, we talked about it all and it was so awesome to know what we were going into. And of course we were so comforted with our surrogate who was a pro and has done this before and knew exactly what she needed in every moment. And it was awesome and amazing to witness.  So take a listen as I talk to Suzzie as she educates us on first plans.

 Hi, Suzzie. Thanks for joining me on the podcast today. 

Hi, thank you so much for having me. 

Absolutely. So listeners just heard, the beautiful intro about kind of who you are, but in your own words, tell me a little bit about your family and tell me how you became a mom. We're going to talk about birth plans and, and all the things in this episode, but let's start with you and your story.

 Yeah. I had a very rocky road to motherhood. It was very weighed with a mix of obligation and desire and trying to meet  the expectations to become a mother at the same time of like managing, wanting to be a mother and also wanting a career and not sure how those things. Balance together. My first pregnancy, I actually lost at about, uh, 14 weeks. I had a molar pregnancy, which is basically when instead of having a placenta, you have a tumor. It's great. Very scary. Had,  about a year recovery after that.  A lot of people with molar pregnancies have to actually go get chemo because of the tumor that can metastasize. I  it was very scary having my body do something so abnormal and rare.  Um, and then my second pregnancy, luckily I got pregnant right away with my daughter Zoe. Super smooth pregnancy after a super intense Whatever that first experience was. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

 But we had a difficult birth and she was born via an emergency C section. And then after she was born, I joined a mom's group and one of the best friends I made there was a midwife student  and she was the first person that helped me process what I had been through. I mean, she was like a therapist slash she became my personal therapist, even though she was. Not a therapist.

Yeah. 

 she helped me work through all this stuff I went through and then she also helped me open my eyes to, birth as something that could be full of joy and could be full of positivity and positive expectation and bonding and, feel very empowering and that it didn't have to necessarily like my focus didn't have to really be on like the what ifs things could go wrong, but how to start exploring the question of What if things go right?

What would that look like? What would it feel like? What would it mean to me? and so four years later, when I had my daughter, Hazel, I, unfortunately did not have her as my midwife because I had moved again. But I just had an incredible birth experience and it was so incredibly empowering. So when Hazel was a year, I went and did my doula training and I've been a doula for about five years.

I've gotten to work with about 200 families and I love it. It's so rewarding seeing people go through the journey to become a mother or expand their motherhood responsibilities with another baby. 

Yeah, that's so amazing. And What value you bring, you know, with your own experiences and then deciding to go into that line of work and help others. That's really cool. And that's so awesome too, that you join that mom group. I tell people that all the time, like, don't be afraid to reach out to others and connect because it, it can be life changing. You know, you never know who you will meet at the right time. to fill your cup for what you need in that moment. So that's really awesome that you got connected with a doula slash friends, Ashley, her piss that worked out. I mean, that's, that's awesome, which is so important, especially having a pregnancy after a loss or something traumatic, it's hard to navigate.

It's very scary. And I think it's more common than, I think when I went through my molar pregnancy and. All the stuff that went like that. It was hard to understand that there were other people that could relate to me because not everybody has gone through something where their body completely rebels, right?

And then people don't also understand the new fears and the weight that you carry moving forwards. now that I do this as a living, that where I work with people in this transition, I'm like, Wow. Whether people have been through that or whether it's their mothers have had experiences, pretty much everyone is carrying a lot of weight as they go into motherhood. I think we just, we struggle sometimes relating to each other about it and talking about it. So I'm glad you have this podcast to kind of, work through it together. 

Absolutely. That's my thinking. Exactly. I mean, I had my first miscarriage back in, it was twins back in  I didn't know anyone going through any of that. And then even when I kind of opened up about it, I still didn't think there was at first people that had my specific experience because I delivered my baby's preterm weeks at home. And  that was, Dramatic. I didn't even know, you know, being a first pregnancy. And I mean, that was coming off of fertility stuff too.

And it was like, I just, I didn't even know that could happen. So I definitely wasn't talking about it at first. And the more I kind of opened up, believe it or not, there, there are just, there's always people out there that can relate to at least one aspect of what you're going through. It might not be completely similar, but, yeah, it was,  it really changed the course of, um, you know, yeah.

The way I pursued motherhood and how I'm a mom now just by connecting with other women and just, feeling not alone in all of this. When you found out it was a molar pregnancy, was this I mean, obviously it was your first time being pregnant. Have you ever heard of it? Was it on your radar? 

No, and I didn't really, I knew, I had a feeling something wrong, was wrong because my pregnancy was very hard. And I was like, you know, there's a normal level of being sick. And then there's, you know, Abnormal and I truly felt that I was in that abnormal level of sick. Like I was losing weight I could only eat like I was eating maybe like a quarter cup of lucky charms a day 

Oh wow, 

like that was all I could keep down.

Yeah, 

and if like I was very Trying to eat more. I was trying to take care of myself, but that was kind of just had become the norm. and there was like the fatigue I was feeling seems like everybody's tired, but there were things like there was one day I was driving home and I was , On the highway. And I was like, okay, I cannot make it home. I can feel my body, like shutting down. Like it was so strange. And so I pulled off in a Walmart parking lot and I slept there for like six hours. My now ex husband was on a business trip. So there was no one really at home waiting for me. 

Yeah. 

And I remember waking up and being like, That was weird and not normal. Like to not be able to drive home from work is not like everybody's, everybody's tired, but that is like, that doesn't seem normal, but I had a hard time you know, when I would bring these things up in my prenatals first, it was hard to get a appointment because it was still so early and then they were like, Oh no, everybody's sick.

Oh no.  Like everything was brushed off. And so I eventually. Switched care. I looked for a second opinion and they were willing to do an ultrasound and they did the ultrasound and determined not that I had a molar pregnancy, but that the fetus wasn't viable, that the baby wasn't viable. And so I went and did a DNC. 

And then when I did the DNC, that went poorly. I guess I lost a lot of blood and, I don't know, I was unconscious during it. So it's just what they told me that then the day after that, the doctor called me back and brought me back to the office. Maybe it wasn't the day after, maybe it was a few days, but then he handed me a pregnancy test.

Um, and, I went and took the pregnancy test and I said this is like cruel and unusual because he literally just took the baby I wanted out of my body. And he was like I know I need you to take a pregnancy test and he wouldn't really tell me why. And so then I went and took the pregnancy test and it was positive and I was like, what does this mean?

I'm like, what is this? And he was like, well, I think that there was something weird about your DNC. You had all this extra tissue and. I'm putting together pieces that you might have had this complication, like just from the way the tissue looked in all the different, like how much of it there was and how abnormal things have been for you. And so it was after that point where I went and got my HCG tested. And then from there they gave me the diagnosis.

And then it was like, the hope, which is what actually happened was that they cleared out.   The placental tissue with a partial molar, which is what I had, not a full molar is growing cancerously and that can spread. And so the hope was that they had gotten enough of it out that my body would clear the rest.

And so they had to watch me for about a year. So for a year I had to go do blood tests. At first weekly and then bi weekly and then monthly to watch the HCG levels come down. So it's pretty crazy. Like when your body thinks you're pregnant, but you're not pregnant, but you have the pregnancy hormones and  it's like maddening.

Yeah. I mean, and just emotionally too. I can't even,  that's really hard to navigate when this was a pregnancy. This was a baby that you wanted and that's not how it turned out and have to deal with that. Yeah. For a year, and, and, you know, it's just scary for your own health and just, wow.

Yeah, it was, it was overwhelming. 

Yeah, I would imagine. 

I was so young at that point in my life that I don't think I knew. Like, my family wasn't really there to help. And, I didn't, like, I wasn't married to someone that was very supportive. And so I was on my own  in a lot of ways with that. So it was crazy. I'm glad that's in the past. 

Yeah, for sure. It's it is interesting when you, look back and in hindsight and, you know, the older we get, the, the wiser we are and the more in tune I think we get with ourselves, especially as moms. Cause I think back to, our first miscarriages prior to having children and my husband is,  supportive and I had a supportive family there, but I still, no one really knew what to do with me, you know, and every generation, every person deals with things differently.

And, some people gave the vibe like, Oh, well, you know, you can just, you'll try again and, and everything's fine. It's fine. At least, you know, you can get pregnant. You know, all the phrases that people say, and I'm like, Oh yes, me too. And meanwhile, I'm like, I feel like I'm not okay. Like that was very traumatizing. And  I had a lot of health  with all of that as well. And it's like,  I did not give myself enough grace. I think back then. And when I look back and now have experienced other things, I'm like, wow, like that was no one should have to do that alone.

No one should have to feel that way. So I'm, I'm so grateful for, the work that you're doing too, to help people, you know, everyone can have a plan, and plans aren't always going to go to plan, but I think, and you'll talk more on this of course, but like, that's kind of the, the strength in having one is knowing your options, because I know for me with every pregnancy and every different thing I experienced, I wasn't even prepared for some of the questions that, something even as simple as like, cord blood banking, like I didn't even, I wasn't even ready for that question the first time it was presented.

I was like, Oh, um, this whole, especially coming off of infertility or birth trauma. I feel like a lot of women are so focused on just like, okay, I just want to get to viability. I just want this pregnancy outcome to be  good. And I, I just, all these things were not on my radar. So, following that year you were monitored after, the molar pregnancy, , when did you decide that you were ready to try and get pregnant again? And how did you navigate that differently after having these experiences with you now?

I started trying again after I got the, okay, that it would be safe. And luckily I got pregnant pretty quickly. It was like a couple months. So that was like a rainbow, I guess. And the journey, don't know, I had a lot of fear and I was kind of stuck between two worlds because my family's super medical and like, just go get the epidural, go do this.

And my ex husband's family was very natural. And so I did a little bit of research into a natural birth. I did a little bit of preparation, but not really much. And it was also very strange because with my ex husband, there was a lot of expectations to do things the way his family did. My mom didn't have an epidural, so you don't need an epidural.

But then there wasn't also like, I had a friend at work whose wife was preparing for a natural labor and they invited us to take, birth classes with them. And my husband was like, no, why would you do that? And, you know,    if you're running a marathon, you can run a marathon. Like any of us could get through a marathon today. Like if it was life threatening, we would all run the marathon. 

Yeah. 

But like I would be close to dead after it would be very traumatic if I had to run a marathon today. But if I had 12 weeks to prepare for a marathon, I could probably have a pretty great experience.

Right. 

And I think labor, it's the same way where. Most of us are not ready to go through the birth process and yet if we become ready We can have a much better experience. It doesn't necessarily mean we can control like sometimes I ask people about what kind of birth do you want to have and they'll tell me like well I want my contractions to start at 8 a. m. And I want to be in labor for five hours And then I want my baby like this and I'm like, okay, we can never have that level of 

yeah  

But I think people don't realize how unique they are and how little, like, we have the doctors that care for us throughout our pregnancy, and then we go into the hospital and we're giving birth with usually whoever's on call, maybe a hospitalist that is only working at the hospital catching babies and never does the prenatals, and for sure nurses that you don't know unless you got super lucky and you're like, oh, there's a girl from my church here that works and asks, and she's here, yeah.

You know, like, sure, sometimes there's an exception to every rule, but usually your care provider at the hospital has one minute to get to know you, maybe 10 seconds, and In that time, you have to be able to communicate what your ideal birth plan is, what your values are, how you like to be communicated with, and anything in your past that might be affecting your birth now.

And you have to be able to communicate that in 10 to 30 seconds, which means you need a good birth plan. Because if you don't, They don't have time to sit there and ask you 10 questions before they make a recommendation. They don't know if you're carrying trauma so that you might have extra anxiety and that you need to talk through it. That would be a great thing for your providers to know. 

Like, for my moms that have come through a  history of loss, That's the first thing on the birth plan is, Hey, I'm super excited to have this baby. I have a lot of anxiety because of X, Y, Z. Please help me filter the conversations through this lens so that my fears can be addressed.

I'm intently listening because I, I think that's so important. I always wondered I, through my experience, I had multiple times when, I would be In the hospital with a subsequent birth and feeling positive and then  a nurse will make a comment about something and I'm like, Oh, well, like something as simple as I remember, um, when I was on hospital bedrest with,  my youngest son, she said something like, Oh, you're having a boy or a girl.

And I'm like, Oh, it's a boy. And she's like, Oh, she's like, thank God. I have a teenage daughter now. And oh my gosh, like boys are great. Boys are great. And like, seems like, Harmless. That's just her opinion. But like, I had already lost two girls and I dreamed of the day of one day having a daughter as well. You know, I was so excited to have my boy, but like, I was like, well, okay, well, I wish my daughters were here. So that's hard. And I'm just sitting here on bedrest, hoping my son will make it here too. So it was like very insensitive things. And yeah, just the way things are dealt with, everyone that comes in the room at the hospital, when you are preparing for birth, like they should know, kind of what's going on.

And I remember more times than once in all my experiences thinking like,  shouldn't there should be like a red flag in my file or something, or is no one looking at it? And like, that's just coming from someone who doesn't even think about it. Fully understand the ins and outs of how the hospital and doctors and nurses work. So as I was listening to you talk, I'm just like, yes, that is such an important thing  in order to have a good experience. Because I think that was the one thing I personally was missing out on. I just kind of like went the other opposite end of the spectrum and was like, I've learned too many times.

I can't control anything. So. I just was kind of like hoping for the best and it makes me sad now after watching our surrogate deliver our daughter and we had a very detailed birth plan and we felt very prepared even from our, perspective as intended parents and being in the room with her, we all knew what to expect.

And I was like, wow,  this should be this calm and You know, every situation is different, but at least we knew kind of what to expect and what the options were. So And the first question that popped into my mind when you were explaining that is how do you, like, is it an actual written plan? How do you convey, like,  what you want or let the doctors and nurses know when you're in that situation is something you do ahead of time or kind of walk me through what you help your clients with. 

Yeah. The way I lay out a birth plan is. I always start it, you know, you put your name, your partner's name, baby's gender, anyone else that's going to be in the room.

Like if your mom is going to be there, if you're having a doula, those should all be right at the top. Just so it's like, these are the people. This is us. And then I always start with an opening statement, which is maybe three to five sentences that says like, Hey, super excited to have this baby. Very nervous because of X, Y, Z ideally.

I want, you know, do you want an induction? Do you want an unmedicated birth? Do you want, whatever it is, put a couple words behind that. and then put something about how you like to be communicated with. Do you want a fun and light environment? Do you want people to be calm and respectful?

When it comes to, Changes. Are you the type of person that really values like shared decision making and lots of information or do you like someone to just tell you like straight talk? Like my recommendation is the C section right now. Let's go. Because most, I would say the majority of doctors are really good at straight talk. Which for a lot of women now feels like a loss of agency when it's really a lack of communication, right? 

That makes sense. 

That comes from, there is responsibility on both parties for that communication. And so if we're not doing our part, if we haven't, laid out a way for people to communicate with us, then it's very difficult to exit this like top down.

And then I'd say on the other hand, midwives typically very much value shared decision making. But for people that want to be told, this is my recommendation, this is what you should do, to like a lot of times people say, tell me like, I felt really lost because I felt a lot of responsibility in that conversation,  but I didn't feel like I understood the implications of my decisions.

Yeah. 

So again, it comes down to like kind of knowing who you are and if you can put a little bit of a framework of how you like to be communicated in that top sentence. really important. And then the next part of the birth plan, I take people through a checklist, which you can actually get on my website.

Oh, awesome. 

Um, I will send you a link  that,  takes you through like all the choices you have to make while you're dilating, while you're pushing and in the golden hour. And we have a page for C section options as well. And that's it. Things like an epidural, you also have choices. Do you not want one?

Do you want one as soon as possible? Are you trying to go as far as you can using your other options and keeping your mind open? Is it okay with you if people offer you the epidural? Is it okay if people offer you other options? Before the epidural those things are things that you should actually clarify in your birth plan Because it's very normal Like for moms that are going natural that don't want an epidural For a lot of nurses They'll see your pain and they'll want to help and the first thing that they're going to do is offer you an epidural and if you If you cannot talk about your pain, then it's a very lonely thing.

And if the answer to you talking about your experience, like, even though I'm running this marathon and I hate taking this next step, I really want to finish, like if that is your resolution, then it really sucks if someone pulls up their car next to you and says, just get in the car, I'll drive you to that end.

Wow. That's a really good way to explain that. 

On the other hand, if you want an epidural and you are suffering and you're saying, I want an epidural and you have a care provider who's like, I don't believe in epidurals as much, then you can truly, truly suffer. It's almost like you're running that marathon and someone's running behind you 

yeah. 

You know? 

Yeah. 

You can go through the same thing and experience a very differently pain. It's not suffering, suffering. It's not pain. You can have pain without suffering and you can have suffering without pain.  Like we have all those layers and especially with epidural conversation, you need to kind of lay out like your order, how you would like that to look. Cause it's perfectly fine to fall anywhere on the spectrum, but you're not going to get support around whatever your vision is unless you can really clarify that. 

Yeah. 

And then  other things on there, you know, like,  are you okay with the head block and IB or how do you handle needles? Because that is a part of the hospital experience. How are you with cervical checks? Do you need support with that? Are you a victim of sexual abuse? Cervical checks can be very traumatizing for people that  have had sexual abuse past. And so it's important to communicate, like, Hey, I want to have as few of these as possible. Or, can we delay until after I have an epidural? You can put so many different parameters on your birth plan to really tailor the experience to you. Maybe tailor the care to you, right? Because your body kind of is on its own path through, right? And there's a lot we can't control. The birth plan is about helping you get the right care for you as you're meeting different challenges throughout the birth process.

 That sounds just so incredibly helpful because again, you, like you said, you, we can't control what your body's going to do and how everything's going to go every step of the way, but if you can comfortably get your blood drawn or not have to stress about a cervical check or worry about making a wrong decision, like that is just going to really create the experience for you. And make it a good one the best you can,  nothing is guaranteed to go to plan, but having those tools and that's awesome that you walk women through this because so many things I wouldn't even think to address that, you know, a lot of times I think, at least from my experience, you just kind of, well, that's what the doctor said, or that's what the doctor does.

That's how it is. And that's not true. Like you as a patient have rights and should. Be able to convey how you feel about certain things. I mean, it's your experience. And, I think the other thing  to note and correct me if I'm wrong, or if you see this with clients is, every pregnancy doesn't have to be the same either, meaning like  for  your first birth plan, you know, you might want the doctor to.

Be very frank with you and tell you like, I think you should do a C section or you should do this. And then as you evolve and, you know, grow in motherhood and get to know your body and after having an experience, your next birth plan could be totally different, right? You could be like, you know what, I, I want to wait, or that's not for me. This is what I want to do. So it feels like it just gives you power too and makes you feel confident in yourself and your capabilities when you have these things in place. 

It really does. And it's also, I feel like it helps us as the. Patient relate to our nurses and our doctors as well because when there's communication there's collaboration and You know, you can talk about a c section and make a very positive choice to go towards a c section.

And it can feel less like that's something that happened to me versus that's a choice I made. And when we consider the postpartum  and how we come into motherhood and the feelings that we have, the confidence we have in ourselves as mothers, the amount that we trust our intuition and ourselves. Birth does have an effect on that.

And so learning to have these conversations, learning how to be mama bear in a way,  it is a skillset to learn how to protect yourself and your vision and your child, and to teach the people around you, how to interact with you as a unique individual. And that's pretty much it.

To me, what the birth plan is about, it's not about controlling every outcome or, having your baby at 6am on a Tuesday. It's about making sure that your needs are met as you're going through this, process that will be new and that will have challenges and that will test you emotionally and physically, no matter what tools you choose to use.

Absolutely. And that's really interesting. I never thought about it like that, how, these choices and this empowerment. In this kind of stepping into this mama bear role will actually help you so much postpartum because yeah, I think for those who don't have a plan or don't have these like guidelines or know that they can make these different decisions ahead of time and relay how they're feeling. It does kind of feel like  things just happen to you. And I know I experienced that.  Obviously I've had very complicated pregnancies, but so much was out of my control. And I think if I would have known that I can voice. how I'm feeling about the way certain things are talked about or the way, you know, whatever it is is done It really would have given me back some confidence because  Even those who have experienced infertility I think before and then have a pregnancy and are preparing a birth plan Having control is one of the things that I know through infertility.

I always wanted because like, you can't. Figure out why you can't get pregnant or you have to take all these different steps. And I remember just surrendering, once I got to the pregnancy and the birth and I would, it did, it just felt like it happened to me. And I was like, okay, I'm here. Like I did it.

And it makes me sad at this point because looking back and after witnessing,  our surrogate, give birth to our daughter and really working on that birth plan with her and being in the room to experience all of that. It really opened my eyes to how beautiful the birth experience can be and should be. And that's regardless of, what our body decides to do in that time. So I think this all makes total sense and is such a great way to set you up for going into motherhood, whether it's your first time or your first child. Fifth time, you know,

yeah, and we evolved so much through going through the birth process I feel like there's so much self discovery and growth that happens in those moments that it's quite normal for like Birth kind of takes you to the limit of what you think you can do And then you find out when you're 10 steps past that, like okay, actually I am okay.

Actually, I can do this. Actually I did have the strength all along. I did have the intuition all along. I had what I needed to take care of myself in this moment all along. Sometimes it takes some time for us to discover that. 

Yeah, absolutely. So, I'm curious too. Do the partners get involved in this at all? so everyone's on the same page? Because I'm just thinking too of like from my husband's point of view going through all of this. I mean, he didn't know what was going on either, you know, and most Dads and parents, stepping into the delivery room are like, I don't know what's about to happen here. But, um, is that kind of incorporated in the plan too?

 It's funny that you say that because I have dads all along the spectrum. Like I've literally had dads like catch the baby and dads that say to me like, no, we hired you so we could outsource this because I don't know what I'm doing.  

I believe that.

And I love that honesty because it really is like, I don't know what I'm doing and I don't want to mess it up. And there's a level of vulnerability and self awareness there that I just really appreciate. 

Yes.  

I think it's helpful for moms and dads to be on the same page and  there's always different ways to reach the same goal. I'd say about 50 percent of the time I have both parents with me when we're making the birth plan and the other 50 percent of the time, initially it's the mom that I'm with. That's it. And then the dad or partner will, come to our second appointment where we'll be like solidifying things.

Yeah. 

And I think it depends too, like, on the dad's personality. Like, does he have a lot of questions? Or is he like, you know what, I know my job is to, like, give the back rubs, be present, do what I'm told. And be active in that way, or is my role, like, protecting in the sense that I'm going to be doing the research? And every family is different there. 

Yeah. 

I feel like a lot of parents have, like, one researcher and one go with the flow person. Totally fine. We don't all have to do everything to have a successful birth. 

Yes. Agreed. Totally. And it is, it's funny because just like every mom is different, every dad is different too. And between friends and brothers and my husband, I mean, like I've, I've seen it all as well. I've seen  my husband, like be up at the top of a C section being like, I don't want to see anything. I don't want to cut the cord. But he's also the first one who will, Talk to the doctor and be like, well, I'm pretty sure my wife wanted this this way. Or could you not say that that way? Because he's super outgoing and talks to everybody. Whereas I'm more like, I don't know if I should say that, or maybe I shouldn't ask that or mentioned, you know, my past or whatever. So, that's why it got me thinking of being on the same page would be helpful because at least then, you know, A husband wouldn't have to guess  what you might want and you can have that additional support and all that.

And I would say this for dads, like most dads, not all dads, like I have an ex husband who would not do what I asked in any way, shape or form. And I want to recognize that some women are truly. But I think most dads really, really want to know what their job is and they really, really want to excel with it and they really, really want to do a good job with it. And they often don't know like what is their job or how to do it. 

Yeah. 

And so like learning also to communicate it can be helpful to have them go through the birth plan if you're trying to assign jobs. Or just have like a separate conversation where like, Hey, just wanted to let you know, this is the birth plan.

These are the five things that you are in charge of making sure. like, you are protecting this part of the plan. Here you go. And  for most dads, if you, like, clearly lay out what you want them to do, they'll, go way above and be up on it and be like so sweet about it. Yeah. But if they don't know, they will go into shut down and freeze and they'll be sitting there watching the birth, like,  You know just like 

Yeah, totally get that and also it seems like solid advice for life too It's  just in my marriage as long as there's clear expectations and they know what you want  Usually you'll go above and beyond to do it. But otherwise it's all over the place. 

Oh My goodness. Well, This is so helpful and I'm just thinking today of my best friend is due in like a couple weeks and she's talked about some of this and her birth plan and I've had actually a lot of friends at this summer who  are pregnant and are About to give birth.

So I just can't wait to Send everyone your way your Instagram is she births bravely so people will have to find you there But for someone wanting to get started with you, I know you have an abundance of resources I've already Scrolled through, but, tell us a little bit about what you have to offer.

I know you mentioned to me that you have a childbirth course and a free quiz. Where should people start? 

Yeah, we do have a quiz. It's called, what does your birth plan say about your personality? It's really helpful  a lot of people don't actually realize what makes them really unique and how to like put that in a couple sentences on their birth plan that will help you kind of identify what framework.

You fit in and give you some language for like that first bit. we also have a childbirth course that walks you through start to finish everything that you need to know about birth from nutrition to prehab movements, through active early labor, active labor, pushing. We have different paths in there for moms who want an epidural and moms who don't want an epidural.

It's very extraordinarily comprehensive because I've worked with a lot of women and I know like we need. All the things. Yes. I would love, love, love, love to hear from you too. So if you just have questions, you can reach me, just message me on Instagram or contact at shibersbravely. com is my email and I'm happy to answer questions if people have them.

That's perfect. I will include your contact info in the show notes so people can easily just click the link and reach out to you. But this has been truly eye opening. For me, I just, I didn't know all the capabilities that a birth plan can bring and, how it can help. just have the best experience. So thank you for putting this on my radar. And I know that listeners are going to find value in this. We have so many women out there who are listening, who are either pregnant or trying to become pregnant. So I really wanted this to be on their radar, whether they are navigating infertility, because I know that side of things can be very daunting and often, you know, last years. So by the time you get to the pregnancy and delivery part, You kind of just like take a big breath and my hope is that anyone in that position Can still make this a priority and know that they're worthy to have these options and a voice and make the experience the best they can. So thank you for chatting with me about this all today.

Oh, thank you so much for having  me. It was very lovely being here. 

It's been a pleasure.  

Thanks again for joining me today. One of my favorite things about hosting this podcast is the opportunity to always be learning. I may be at a different spot in my motherhood journey than you are. I hope that if you're listening, maybe I'm a few steps ahead and you can learn some things from me. But I am constantly learning new things. Things that I wish I knew in hindsight, things that I wish somebody would have told me at earlier points in my journey. So I hope by providing these expert guests and these interesting conversations that go beyond the things that you're scrolling in your typical social media highlight reels.

 I hope that I'm helping educate you on different topics, so you can be as prepared as you can be on your journey to motherhood, whatever that may look like. I hate that there's so much in my fertility journey where the phrase, I didn't know what I didn't know came up, when I look back on a decade long journey to building my family, I see so many points in time where I'm like, man, if I would have known this, or if I would have been kinder to myself during this, 

and you truly, unless you're in the situation, people just aren't talking about these things. So I hope at least for today, if you are currently pregnant or hope to be pregnant one day, you know, a little bit more about birth plans and the kinds of things that you can set up for yourself to have the best experience possible.

I'll keep this short and just say, don't forget to check the show notes for all the links, click the fifth star and write a review of the podcast if you haven't already I would greatly appreciate it Of course join us in the motherhood intended community group on Facebook, and you can always follow along with me on Instagram at motherhood underscore intended.

If you have any further questions about anything we talked about in this episode, don't be afraid to reach out to me. Or if you're in a point in your fertility journey and you're feeling a little stuck or needing extra support, always feel free to reach out to me. You can email me at hello at motherhood intended. com, or go ahead and send me a DM on Instagram. I get back to every single person and I absolutely love helping however I can for those who are navigating the ups and downs of every unique journey to motherhood. That's all I have for you today. I hope you have a great weekend. I myself can't wait to catch up on sleep. I hope you're all doing well. And I will talk to you again next week.