PCOS and Infertility: Colleen’s Empowering Journey to Motherhood

In this heartfelt episode, Jacqueline starts off by sharing the deeply personal story behind the inception of her podcast 'Motherhood Intended,' following the loss of her daughter Maren. Through her grief, Jacqueline found strength and inspiration to create a platform that supports mothers navigating infertility and motherhood. 

This episode features an engaging conversation with guest Colleen, who details her infertility journey due to PCOS, her experience with functional medicine, and her role as a co-founder of a children’s book publishing company. The episode highlights the importance of self-advocacy in healthcare, the therapeutic value of sharing personal stories, and the intersection of Western and functional medicine in addressing infertility. Tune in for stories of resilience, valuable insights on managing PCOS, and a celebration of empowered mothers.

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Transcript

Hey, it's Jacqueline. I hope your week is going well. I wanted to share something with you today, because it's been the inspiration and kind of what propelled me forward to start  So today is the third heavenly birthday of my daughter, Maren.

For those who don't know my whole story, after eight years of never becoming pregnant naturally, only becoming pregnant via IVF,  back in 2021, I miraculously became pregnant and had a flawless pregnancy up until about 20 weeks where in one weekend I experienced back pain, spotting, went to the hospital, and within the hour of being in the emergency room was in full blown Labor, bleeding, and we had lost our daughter,  and I almost lost myself too.

I was in a very dangerous situation with my abdominal cerclage in place,  you cannot contract because I was at risk for uterine rupture  and there was a lot of internal bleeding, later to find out that we lost the pregnancy, lost my daughter due to placental abruption.  So three years ago today is when we had to say hello and goodbye to Maren.

She was the absolute biggest surprise of my life, and one of the biggest heartaches as well. The years to follow losing Maren were some of my darkest days. But it's because of her that I picked myself up and rose from the ashes and decided That this was a pivotal point in my life, this traumatic experience, this grief, it could have pulled me down or I could let it push me forward and allow me to be the best version of myself, not only for me  but for my husband and of course for my children.

It was on the one year anniversary that I decided that I was going to start the motherhood intended podcast I took an eight week course with Kathy heller if you've never heard of her look her up on instagram. She is putting amazing things out into the world and after those eight weeks I was All in, I was ready to launch this podcast, which as you know, came out on my birthday   2023.

 So today's always a hard day for me because it just takes me back to that day,  when everything so spontaneously came crashing down and, it just felt like fake life. It felt like I was watching a movie. It all happened to me and when I think that, we could have a three year old right now, it's just wild and, it makes me sad, but it also brings me comfort to know that her life had so much purpose, you know, she changed the trajectory of my life and our family's life.

And of course, she sent us Lorelei, our third rainbow baby. So I just wanted to let you in on the motivation behind Motherhood Intended, and why I started it. It all started in honor of not only Maren, but my other daughters, Charlotte and Cecilia, who are all gone too soon. So this whole project and this business and everything Motherhood Intended related, was inspired by them. 

So today on the show, I'm welcoming on Colleen. Colleen is a former middle school choir teacher. She's a current stay at home mom to her three year old daughter. And while trying to conceive Colleen was diagnosed with PCOS and she and her husband, Roy had to navigate the world of infertility in the midst of a global pandemic.

I know that some of you listening can relate to this. What wild times and what, Trying times to be going through infertility. Luckily, they were blessed to welcome a daughter in 2021 and are currently expecting a son due this month.

And Colleen and Roy started a publishing company specializing in children's alphabet board books about colleges and universities across the country called Campus A to Z. Colleen serves as editor in chief and has authored four books from the collection so far. Take a listen as Colleen shares with me her journey to motherhood.

Hi, Colleen. Welcome to the motherhood intended podcast. 

Hi, thank you for having me. 

Of course. I am always excited to have a fellow mom on who is willing to share your story to motherhood. I know it's a journey of infertility and PCOS and I'm sure some other pieces that we're going to learn today. So let's start at the beginning Tell us a little bit about yourself, you know, tell me about when you got married,  your kids and how you've started your family. 

Yeah. So, my husband and I met in high school or high school sweethearts. We met doing theater and show choir, a true musical story. 

And then, uh, we got married in 2016 and we've been like avid travelers. Ever since we love that's like our thing. We love have loved to do together So we knew we wanted to like wait a little while before we started having kids and you know five years in we were like Kind of ready and we're like, okay, let's do this and we started trying and like no one expects that challenge of like wait Why isn't this happening?

Right like we were totally thrown by that And a lot of the time I know A lot of women have experiences with doctors saying, like, you've got to try for a year before we're gonna do any tests and da da da. And I kind of went in and I was like, no, like I'm taking ovulation tests and like none of them are positive.

Like there's something going on here. 

Yeah. 

Um, and they did an ultrasound and they found cysts in my ovaries. And they were like, Oh, has anyone ever told you, you have PCOS? No, I'm 27 years old. Like that probably wasn't really on my radar. Exactly. And you know, I was on birth control since age 15, like a  generation.

And it really, I've, what I've learned is masked a lot of those symptoms of PCOS that would have made it more apparent earlier on before we were really ready to start a family. So, um, that was frustrating just to get that diagnosis so late and we held a lot of Anchor about that. Because we would have started trying sooner if we knew.

And so, yeah, so then we kind of started taking little steps. My doctor did like the,  I forget the name of the exact test where they put like dye through your tubes 

yes, I've had that too. It's a, it's a very long name. I think it's a hysterosalpinogram. 

I was going to say HSG.

HSG, yes.

So we did that. That was kind of an initial step with her. And everything was good. So I was like, okay, so now what? And then we started on some prescription, like, because my PCOS causes just non ovulation. I just don't, which makes sense. Like, I never really got a period when I was on birth control either, but that can be a symptom, right?

So  it just never came back when I stopped taking it. Which I don't know. Like I just didn't think that far into, I guess, like why would  you? Um, but I was never regular. That's why I was put on birth control to start. 

But I also think like at that age and in our twenties too, we just, at least for me, I mean, it wasn't even on all these things. Like, it's not on my radar that they all, like, piece together. Like, oh, because of birth control, like, you might not do this. And because of these symptoms, it could be this. And because of this, this, you might not be able to do this. Like, these are not things that We were taught ever, you know, I thought we were taught the basics and then given all these blanket statements, like take birth control. So you don't get pregnant. Wait a year before you seek help. Like, but that does not apply. I didn't do that. Do that either. I was convinced something was wrong. So like, I just,  I think doctors need to stop doing that.

And health class teachers, like we were talking, you learn that like, if a guy looks at you the wrong way, like you're going to get pregnant.  And a lot of us are ready. It's like, it doesn't happen. Or maybe in time around, it's not as easy as it was the first. It's like, you're never prepared for that . So yeah, so we, we started doing some prescription, um, we started with letrozole, we did three rounds of that and nothing was changing. Um, and then COVID happened.  

Oh my gosh. I was going to ask you what the timeframe was and just to stop you real quick, how old were you, I guess when you started like these treatments, like when you saw your doctor and they said PCOS.

So I'm, I think I was like late 27,  27. Yeah. 

Okay. 

We were kind of ready. And then, 

yeah, yeah. Um,  and so yeah, then COVID happened. And if people weren't going through fertility stuff at that time, they might not know, but they stopped all fertility treatments. Even just like the prescription meds, like it wasn't just IVF, like they stopped everything.

Wow. I didn't even realize that. Wow. 

During COVID. So we had literally zero options, like just sit and wait. Which like there was nothing to do. It's not like we could do the thing we loved to do together, which was travel. 

Right. 

So there was no outlet for us to like go through to try to solve this problem and my body couldn't do it by itself. And so,  we connected actually through one of my best friends as a chiropractor and she had a functional medicine doctor in her office that was kind of training her a little bit in functional medicine. And she was like, Hey, like this doctor is willing to use you as like, basically a, Like a test, not a test subject, but like to teach her. 

know, I know what you're saying. I can't think of the right word either, but

yeah, like there you go. Oh, her, like the steps she takes when she encounters these types of cases. So we were so lucky for that connection because during those months when we couldn't. Meet with my doctor like we at least felt like we were doing something And it honestly felt like so much more like she took a full blood panel workup of my body and just kind of told me a lot more about my pcos and how there's different types for different women and it's like a spectrum right like everyone has Different side effects and, so I got to learn more and it turned out I was like completely deficient in vitamin D Like basically off the charts. And she said she's like you're nothing's gonna work even with medication if you don't Address this and so it's like another thing 

I know isn't that frustrating when you think in hindsight? You're like why wouldn't well then why didn't? Why weren't those levels tested first and adjust that before like wasting time and money and effort.

And we've kind of learned through this process that like now going forward, like I'm currently pregnant with our second. And in that process, like we knew immediately that it needed to be a partnership between the functional medicine element and like Western medicine, like our, our current system, working together.

And I was very candid with OB, I was like, this is what we learned, like hoping maybe she would. Be open to sharing that with other women. Cause who knows? And I also learned like you have to take vitamin D with a healthy fat. So like if you're just taking vitamin D supplement, it's not absorbing into your body.

You have to take it with a healthy fat, like avocado. My, functional medicine doctor said she literally just pops an almond and then takes her vitamin B, but like, again, I never would've known that. So 

yeah, I didn't know that either. I, I, I was deficient in that at one point as well, but was never, never told that. So that would've been helpful.

 better than others. Like, you walk to Walgreens and it's just a whole section of vitamins,  so that helped guide us,  and kind of came at the time when we just like perfectly needed it.  So that when things opened up again, which I think it was about like a  And then we were able to start letrozole again and it took another three rounds in that third round. That time worked.  

And were you getting the letrozole? Was this from your OB or was this like a fertility doc? Your OB? Okay. 

It was from my OB. 

Okay. 

And by then we were technically on our sixth round, right?

 Yeah. 

Three before everything. And then the second three. So that was kind of the last try, our last chance before we would kind of seek. More extreme measures and it took and the other thing that I, that I'll share that I learned that my functional medicine doctor, and I hope it's okay that I'm talking about all of that. I know I'm not. 

Oh my gosh. Yes. I didn't want to interrupt you before, but I was thinking in my head, I'm so glad that you're sharing this because I think it's important for listeners to know like all the different options out there. It's not like just a one way street to having a baby. And these are things that I wish I would have known at the beginning of my journey.

So anytime this comes up, I'm just, I'm really. I'm really glad. I mean, I'm just now learning about functional medicine and my body and like getting more information on that because it's hard when you get on like a one track, you know, you have one doctor, one OB say, okay, this isn't happening. See this person.

And then you go to this person and this person's like, this is what I'm going to do. And like, I know at least at the beginning of my journey, I, Just trusted my doctors. Like if they could have said, like, stand on your head and drink water and you'll get pregnant and I'll be like, done, like, that sounds great.

It's only as, you know, my journey's gone on and now like having kids that I realized how much you actually need to advocate for yourself and do your research. And, Definitely not a one size fits all, so I love that you're talking about the functional medicine side of things. 

Yeah, and again, like it's not like it completely closed our minds to Western medicine.

Yeah, 

that's what I'm saying at all. It was just we realized that it's like this holistic thing. It's not just let's look at the uterus. It's like no, no, let's look at the whole body, right? What's going on? Like because something's not communicating. 

Yeah, 

and that yeah, that's what 

I think even like for people who might be you know, more hesitant to consider that versus Western medicine. And like you said, it can be definitely like a partnership. Um, I kind of feel like it's like, what's, what's the worst that can happen if you kind of work with both? Because I just know that, like, from my experience, you know, so much time and money and effort and,  medications on your body to like, that might not be the best route.

I mean, For us,  I was on Clomid and we did so many IOIs. By the time I got to my IVF doctor, she was like, Oh my gosh, I would have never. Put you on that medication that many times and in the mix right before IVF, then I got in touch with a chiropractor and was doing acupuncture and some other things and, you know, learn more from that doctor.

And I'm just like, Oh my gosh, if I could go back, I would have probably done things differently in that first year and a half. And it would have been so much more beneficial just on my body overall, even if it didn't help me get pregnant right away, just for my own sanity and health and time and resources. So it's, I think it's just. It's nice to mention for those who might want to consider other options. 

And I think like, like having this podcast and like getting the word out there about this process. Like I think our generation is much more open about fertility, thankfully. And like, I think about my daughter all the time and how like we have learned through me that like, birth control masks, a lot of symptoms and PCOS can be genetic. So like, I'm going to be hyper aware of that for her benefit and for her behalf, even if she doesn't want kids one day, like, 

right. 

Well, like there's other ways to manage those other symptoms that are, you know, not fun. 

Yeah. So for those listening,  cause I know obviously the symptoms were masked for you for a while, but when you went off birth control and decided you were ready to start a family, Did you have symptoms of PCOS or did you notice them in hindsight  I guess what are like common symptoms of PCOS? 

Yeah, so there's a lot of I mean, it's it totally varies like there's so many  I don't have a lot of the stereotypical symptoms Which is another reason why it kind of slid under the radar because a lot of the time It's like issues with weight, like fluctuation, more facial hair because a lot of the time PCOS you have higher testosterone levels, higher mood swings, food cravings that are like, not just when you're on your period, just like all the time.

And then I think the biggest one for a lot of women is the irregular cycles, 

okay. 

Always had, which again, it's like, why didn't we address the why  you slapped a bandaid on it and said, here, start taking this birth control and it'll regularly,  but why  

I am literally experiencing kind of the same thing. I just started talking with a hormonal doctor recently. And again, I'm not trying to get pregnant anymore. Like that chapter is closed for me, but so I'm finally kind of focusing on my health outside of fertility. Um, and. So I was just told recently, cause  I always had a regular period, but like horrible,  painful,  debilitating heavy periods. But then I went on a birth control and like my late in my teens, late teens, and you know, that all essentially resolved for the most part, at least got better manageable. , and it wasn't until I got an IUD put in a couple of years ago and the doctor was like, or the, I had an ultrasound done beforehand and she was like, has anyone ever told you that you have PCOS?

And I'm like, No, and I've gone through years of infertility with a slew of other things going on, but, um, nope, never heard that. Yeah. And then this doctor recently just told me, and I can't even think of the name now, but there's like a name for like, if you have very heavy periods, there's like something to do with that. I'm like, why? When I first Like, I got my period as an 11 year old, like, why didn't, why didn't someone back then be like, Oh, little girl, like, this is not, this is not normal.  

What's baffling to me, too, is like, the majority of OBs are women. So it's like,  why, why, and I mean, I, I love Naomi. She's a wonderful doctor.  Like, why hasn't there been like a systemic change? Because they know that women's health is like a hot mess. Like, why, why isn't there something happening to change?  And maybe there is a different levels that we just don't know, but yeah, it's, it's baffling.

I heard recently on another podcast that I think it's one in 10. And  don't quote me on this. I'll have to circle back with exact facts, but um, I think it's one in 10 women have PCOS like it's like a it's a lot number and the funding that goes into  PCOS research or really just like women's health research in general is like So, so small again, I don't remember the number, but when I heard it, I was like, what is going on?  no wonder there's like such a disconnect. And I too, I always complain about like, why didn't my doctor tell me this? Why didn't, even though I love my doctors, like, um, you know, they only have a capacity that they can reach as well with like their time with each patient and, and all the things there's, there's a lot of change, but the best thing we can do at least right now is talk about it. So I'm glad you're here  sharing your story. 

I agree. So it was the last cycle on latrizole that you ended up getting pregnant. 

Yes, and vitamin D, I just want to make clear, wasn't the only thing that like my functional medicine doctor  Yeah. I was taking a lot of supplements and it was all very specifically tailored to me. So I don't even want to get into like what all it was. 

Yeah. 

I just, yeah, I would recommend that, you know, and the unfortunate thing is a lot of functional medicine doctors are not covered by insurance, I would say in the majority.  But it was well worth it. Because we want our daughter, you know, but yeah, so it was the third round,  and with the supplementation plus the letrozole, we really believe that that's, that's what got things going for us. And then as soon as I was pregnant, my functional medicine doctor was very adamant about getting progesterone. 

because she said that dips in progesterone, which can happen with women, especially with PCOS is what can cause a pregnancy loss. Okay.  And I really did have to advocate for that. They were super hesitant about it.  I don't know why there's no longterm negative side effects of doing it.   And it has, I mean, if you Google it, like you'll learn that some other countries it's like, Especially like a given pregnancy losses as soon as they're pregnant, start taking progesterone.

Yeah. 

And I took it through the, I think it was like a generic brand called like endometrin. I want to say whole first trimester. It's not pleasant. It's a suppository. So 

I was going to ask you, I know there's different forms of progesterone. I I've tried all three. I had to do an injectable progesterone and yeah, the suppository. And then also like the oral progesterone, which made me literally. That was, that was not a good fit for me. I was like, it, I took it and hours later felt like I was like drunk, like was acting like people around me were like, are you well, I'm like, I'm not like, I literally feel like hammered right now, this is very confusing. But yeah, that's, I mean, that's, uh, I'm glad you were able to advocate for that because like I, that was the standard for me after my first loss was like, okay, you're on progesterone. But that was because of like a reproductive endocrinologist and like maternal fetal medicine being like, this is the course of action. So, 

yeah. And again, it's like, if we do that, like why make a woman experience a loss first? Like if we know that it works, then just do it. Like it doesn't make sense. And obviously like people can decline if it's not for them , and not everyone needs it, but yeah. So we did that. The first time and then I did it again with,  our son who I'm pregnant with now.

Yeah, so that was a big one. And then,  fairly uneventful pregnancy. I developed, well, actually  

I'm convinced no pregnancy is like completely uneventful, but yeah, 

it wasn't technically pregnancy related, but yeah, we had a ruptured ovarian cyst when I was  pregnant with my daughter, 

that was probably terrifying.

Never had that before. Did not know what was going on. I knew it wasn't the baby. Like I knew she was okay. , they couldn't figure it out cause I could not lay still long enough for them to get imaging. Like I was in so much pain.  Um, they thought it was my appendix. They almost just like opened me up for like exploratory surgery.

They could not figure it out.  And it wasn't until the next day because it slowly, I mean, they were giving me pain medicine and everything that they could, stayed the night at the hospital and slowly things just started to ease and they were able to take an ultrasound and they were like, this looks like it could be some remnants of a ruptured cyst, like you evidence of that. And I came home and I was like, a hundred percent, that's what I had. They know I have PCOS. Again. 

Yeah, right. 

Why? Like, why wasn't that even at the front of anyone's mind? And I don't know if there's any treatment for that. I think you just have to kind of write it out. It was horrible. It was ten times worse than childbirth. 

Which was almost a blessing in disguise because then when I gave birth to my daughter, I was like, oh, 

that was easy 

It was like when you have contractions when you have when you give birth you get breaks right this was just yeah, no break So now with this pregnancy again, I'm the one who said this happened with my first like I don't think it was related to the pregnancy I think it was just poor timing. But why don't anytime we do an ultrasound? Let's just check in there for some cysts  

You're already looking. So like, please 

ask every time, like they haven't like made a note in my file to like do that. 

Oh my goodness. That is one thing that I'm like, I think about that often how, like, why aren't there  someone needs to create something where there's like a flag that pops up  Like it's yellow if it's for this like someone who has experienced this category of things or like if you've experienced a loss before something should pop up on your chart because that's another thing that I feel like I've had to encounter  multiple times multiple places where you're like at an appointment and either a nurse is being insensitive or they're asking you for like the millionth time about a situation and you're like don't you have this in my record like just 

yeah like why are we starting every right right yeah It should be accumulation, especially in like a, like a longer journey, like yours, like from doctor to doctor, like, 

right. Well, and especially when you have things going on and you want to prevent them from happening again. I mean, it's sad that we have to advocate for ourselves, but that's really smart. And I hope listeners who are in this situation are maybe not pregnant yet. Just remember this because, , for your own sanity, just, Don't be ever be afraid to bring things up and ask for what you need.

I mean,  luckily  my OB in their office was always like accommodating, but like I asked for, you know, Like ultrasounds often, even though that wasn't the standard, um, because for mental health reasons and for, yeah, things like I've, I've had cysts as well. And I've had cysts removed and I've had, you know, all sorts of things.

And I'm like, I'm not going to just be at home wondering what this is because, and if they're not going to do the research, like you said, you did a quick Google search and realize, Oh, that's exactly what happened. 

Like word for word, like reading what was saying, like worse than childbirth. I was like, that's what I had.

Right? Oh my gosh. 

It was not my appendix. A hundred percent. Yeah. 

Oh my goodness. Okay. So, but again, aside from that, which is not a little thing, but, um, delivery went well or everything else. 

 After that I became high risk and they did start doing more regular ultrasounds. And my blood pressure started to go up. So I did develop preeclampsia. 

Okay. 

So they induced me at 37, which was not part of our plan, but we were open to it. And just a little sidebar, I'm not going to go super into, but,  my brother was born with severe disabilities and it was due to traumatic birth. And so that anxiety was always in my mind and we hired a doula to be with us. For that reason, it just like helped a lot with planning and knowing what to expect. And when there is a true emergency that calls for like, we weren't like, no C section. It was like,

right. 

We'd really like to deliver vaginally. We also acknowledge there is a time and a place. So 

yeah, 

we wanted an advocate there with us.

So your doula was just for like birth and like at the hospital wasn't like three year pregnancy. 

We hired her like second trimester, but I didn't really touch base with her when  we were getting paid. Yeah. Um, but they, I mean they're available a lot of the time. Like we have a different one cause our, our first doula moved to Kentucky, but I can just text her like, Oh, I'm, I'm feeling this. Like, what do you think? Right. Probably around ligament, like  because again, when I would message my doctor, it would be like two to three days, 

right? Right.  And you're either like stewing in anxiety or you're like, Oh, over it. Nevermind.  

Yeah. Or I'm okay. I'm feeling better. Thank you. 

Right. 

Yeah. So she was there for the birth and, and the birth was, was great.  For an induction, like if anyone's been induced Pitocin, Contractions are no joke.  My blood pressure did start to elevate  and this was another instance where we kind of spoke up because we had read about podcasts about it, I knew that they might try to give me magnesium and I had read, I don't know if you experienced with this or not.

I've been on magnesium a few times and yeah. 

Yeah, the side effects I've heard are terrible, like  You're very out of it. And that just wasn't what I wanted unless I needed it, which again, I was accepting of if I needed it.  Um, and so we kind of said, well, my blood pressure's going up because I'm in a lot of pain. What if we do the epidural? See if it goes down. If it does, great. If it doesn't, we'll do the magnesium. And they were like, okay, we can try. Well, it worked.  So 

good. I'm eating magnesium.  

Yeah. Magnesium from my experience. Again, I didn't really have a choice either time. It was, I was given it with, it's with preterm labor. That was like way too soon. So, um, but it, what I remember I had at both times with both my sons and it was, I mean, like my whole body was like on fire. It just felt like burning like through your veins and it was,  yeah, it's, it's not fun at all. And it has to go in like slowly for that reason. It's like over like an hour, it's just. It's not, if you don't need it, I mean, it's obviously very helpful for a lot of things, but  in general, it's like, maybe just try anything before putting certain things in your body. That's just my opinion. 

Yeah. Especially like for your child's birth.  I wanted to be as present as I could be while still being sick and healthy. So yeah, we were lucky that, that, that did the trick and,  um, then she came and,  The last complication was that my placenta broke apart. Again, there's a term for that. I don't know what it is. So after she came out, it was like 30 minutes of my doctor just going back in to pull out the pieces,  because they couldn't leave anything in there. And  so,  that was like the most traumatic part of the birth for me.  That can happen for a lot of reasons. I don't know if the doctor pulled on the cord and that caused it to, I don't know.  But on my birth plan this time, it is like, wants to deliver the placenta. Like please do not touch it. Let's try to just let it do its thing. If hemorrhage is a risk, I understand, do what you got to do, but let's try this first. 

Right. Right. And  just to touch on a birth plan real quick. Is this something?  And I did an episode on this.

I'm personally, I'm not familiar with birth plans outside of my surrogate's birth plan because we had somebody like sit down with us and work. And that was because we had to like work together, obviously, and, and know what was going on all of us. Um, but is this something that your doula can help with?

Like help you come up with a plan and like you said, like, be your advocate in that situation. Definitely. And ours happened to be like a program that they purchased.  Um, we use Holistic Family Doula is the doula company that we use, but, um, Motherboard is the name of the website and you don't have to have a doula to use it, but there is a fee, to make a plan and it's very, they're like little emojis almost.

You pick like your favorite, like your most important things and you put them on, but there's free websites out there too. If you just search like,  birth plan.  included things like,  clamping for the baby.  Didn't want to be coached to feel like push on my o those sensations, which I pushed for 20 minutes.

I  You can put like specifics about pain management and like, if you want to move around versus be in bed and, a lot of hospitals are actually moving to be really accepting and, supportive of coming in with your wants and needs. And, we were very open that if this is not possible, we understand that, but this is, um, Perfect world. This is where you would look. 

Right. 

And yeah, there's a lot out there, birth plans, like people  kind of push on both sides of the aisle, like  that what's going to happen is going to happen. And I agree with that to an extent, but I also think having as much knowledge about what that day is going to look like.

Like I always think about it like this, we spend months and months, sometimes years planning our wedding day. Why don't we do the same for the birth of our children, you know, like, yeah. Just like reading about it and exploring your options and knowing, cause you do have a choice in a lot of elements.

Even if it's something as simple as like dimming the lights after the baby's out. Like once everything's okay, let's dim the lights. Let's limit visitors. Let's, you know, Have the freedom to listen to whatever music we want to listen to. Like those little things are part of that day that can make or break.

Like for me, I made my birth playlist. It was basically like musical theater songs combined with like dance music, like Bruno Mars and Lizzo. And I have specific memories from delivering my daughter where I just stopped in the middle of everything and went hashtag blessed. Cause I was like, 

I love that. 

Like each person's going to be totally different. Some people want like more Zen, like that's not me, but it never helps, you know? Yeah. So 

that's, that's so cool. And that is like, yes, I'm glad to hear that. It seems like hospitals are becoming more open and doctors are more,  accommodating and paying attention to these birth plans.

I actually, I don't even think I knew anything about birth plans when I, I mean, I had two kids without any of that. You know, I went into a hospital thinking like, I'm just here to do whatever they tell me to do, like to get the baby here. And it's a hospital.  I was already anxiety ridden just being in the hospital. And you know, so many people I think have plenty of like traumas and experiences related to hospitals, whether it was with them or a loved one. So like just being there alone,  but knowing that you can have the experience that you want, whether it's. Standing, laying, the music, like who's talking to you? I mean, these are the kind of things we did talk about,  with our surrogate. So we knew what kind of experience she wanted and what we were looking for. And it makes such a difference. I mean, this is the entrance of your child into the world. And  if they're coming  in a peaceful, like calm environment, obviously there's a lot going on.

And like, it's not just like all  kumbaya, like there is pain and there's doctors and there's like things happening and every situation, like you said, is different. And when. Certain things are just going to happen, but you know, it's your body. And so I think it's important to be able to have. As much control as you can about a situation that is like you said it's such a big situation We we spend so much time  planning our wedding.

Like you said This is the birth of a human, like this is the beginning of their life and something you'll never forget. So, yeah, I think it's important for people to know that you have that option to plan it out. 

And again, also still acknowledging, like it might not be that, like you might be in an emergency C section and that's okay too. I actually, because of my brother, like I had both.  because I make up one with  specifically, you can mak plan and then you can mak plan as well. So it's lik told you have to have a c  mean? It's like you just  they want, like some doc will like put on the musi  Well, this is my birth. Like it's,  it might look differently than I originally thought.

We didn't expect to be induced. I mean, that threw us for a loop. It's not on the plan, but we learned, we tried to read as much as we could and we went with it. So I think always having that in the back of our head, like this could change. And I will share the biggest thing our doula taught us and taught my husband.  Because a lot of the time, you know, if you're already in labor, your focus is up there. 

Yeah. 

So, you know, your support person, your spouse, or if you have another, like a parent, whatever, he learned to say, is this an emergency? So like when they came in with the magnesium thing, he said, hang on, is this an emergency or can we talk about it? And it wasn't an emergency. So we talked about it. We landed on the epidural option. Sometimes they might say, yes, it is. We need to take your wife, you know, and that's okay. Then that's what we do. We're not saying like doctors are wrong and doctors,

right, right, right.

 It's partnership. We should all be working together.

Yeah. I like that phrase a lot. That makes a lot of sense. And it's really just like being like pausing because again, in doctors, I don't think mean to be this way either, but it's like, they know, yeah. What they're doing and they know what their protocol and what they want to do from a medical standpoint. Like they're not thinking the whole  picture half the time, you know, 

every day. Yeah, 

exactly. Exactly. So not unless you're asking, like, nothing's going to feel like an emergency to them, you know, like half the time. Cause they're just like, Oh, standard, this is happening and we will do this.

Yeah, yeah.  If they're being too clinical, like slow down. Can you say that again to me? Like I'm in second grade. What you're saying about my body and my child. 

Yeah. And I think it's important to note too, that even if you create a birth plan or even if you have those two birth plans, whether it's like to do a vaginal delivery or one for in the event of like C section, you can also change your mind. You know, like if you create a birth plan and you're in the middle of labor and you're like said, you didn't want an epidural and now you do, you know, obviously there's, specifications. I go along with that, but, No one, as a first time mom especially, when you're in labor for the first time and you're getting ready to give birth, I mean, you can guess what you might want or what you're feeling, but until you're in the moment, you don't always know, and that's okay too.

Yeah, and that was part of ours with the whole magnesium thing, like, cause I originally wanted, To try to not get an epidural at all. But then I was like, you know, six centimeters was my goal. If I can get to six centimeters, just because it's for those, like, sometimes it, things can move faster if you don't get an epidural.

Cause you're just more, a little more in tune with what's going on in your body. And so  that was my goal, but you know, pitocin happened  and the magnetic congestion was made and, and yeah, we, we pivoted and  I'm totally fine with that. I, I look back on that day and it was just. It's beautiful, as beautiful as it could be, and, Yeah, we have no regrets about it.

And going into this one, like my doctors, even now at these appointments, I'm 35 weeks, starting to ask, like, do you want an epidural? And I'm like, I don't know yet.  Yeah. Why didn't you know that now?  Can you see how I'm feeling? Like, will I get one? Probably, but I don't know. I don't know when, like, I don't want you to be like, are you ready for it? Are you ready for it? Are you ready for it? Like,

right, right. First time. Yeah. So you're good.  And it was a daughter you had first, right? 

Yes, our daughter, Clara. 

Wonderful. And she was born totally healthy. And I know 37 weeks  did she have any kind of NICU stay or no? 

She did not. Because we knew the induction was coming about a week and a half out. Um, we knew it was impending. We didn't know it would be right at 37 because that's when my blood pressure just reached a point they weren't comfortable with. I got like steroid injections cause I think the lungs are the last thing, so they gave me some steroids to help her lungs develop a little bit faster. And then yeah, no NICU stay. We did end up being in the hospital for four days. So it took two days for her to come look a day and a half. And then we spent two nights. Just because I breastfed and I didn't want to leave until  I felt comfortable enough with that. And I did call,  lactation consultant in every single time, which I think helped get us off on the right foot. 

Yeah, that's great. That's really helpful. I did the same thing. I was like, I, I don't want to go home until I have like a better, you know, all this, or at least know what to do next. And I still didn't have the handle of it when I went home, but I, I don't know. I need it. I wanted all the help. Yeah. I wanted all the help I could get. My second son was born at 37,  37 weeks, one day, via C section and same thing. No NICU time, but had steroids ahead of time,  when I was in the hospital.

And so with preeclampsia are you with your second pregnancy, have you had any issues with that or are you more likely to develop preeclampsia?

  more likely. It's not a h are more likely the secon monitoring it probably a I would hope with other p get an appointment, which again, I was pregnant dur I was not very physically active. I was a teacher for seven years. I taught choir. I was teaching on a computer screen, you know, in my music room, like this time around I'm chasing a three year old around. So 

yeah,  

overall physically healthy. Which  I don't know for sure that that plays a role in blood pressure, but I have to think it doesn't hurt.

Yeah. 

Again, we worked with our functional medicine doctor the second time around and she recommended even the first time when I first started showing signs of Preeclampsia taking different kind of magnesium Okay, magnesium that you can like mix with water or tea. 

Okay. 

It's called calm and Drinking some of that at bedtime can help but you're not supposed to do that till third trimester Okay, so I started I started doing that right away third trimester. So I'm hopeful that that Has played a role, but yeah  

That's amazing. 

Yeah, 

that's awesome. And what when's your due date?

I'm due September 26  I keep like thinking it's just going to be earlier because she was weeks early. So I'm like, I'm like, I just have to make it to September, but like, I might have, yeah. I never reached a point. I don't know if it was like this with you, but I never reached a point with my first during pregnancy where I was like, and maybe it's because of what we went through to, to get to that point. Yeah. Like I had a lot of friends that got pregnant at the same time. And it was like, which is a whole nother thing that we could talk about.

Oh my gosh.  

They were all like, I'm so done, blah, blah, blah. And I never reached that point with Eric.  This guy's a little different. He's very active and  I understand the discomfort at this level, but it is still, I feel like I, I am trying not to, this is going to be our last and I'm trying to cherish it as well. Yeah. Knowing we're very blessed to even be here. So. 

I definitely think there's something to be said about that. The perspective of, you know, when you've tried so hard and you've gone through fertility treatments and things to just get pregnant and then have experienced things, whether it's during your pregnancy or your delivery. I mean, every moment feels  sacred. And especially when you know it, it'll be your last. So  my first, isn't a very good example. Cause he just caught us all by surprise and was just born at 24 weeks. And I was definitely not ready. Obviously I barely wrapped my head around, like, you know, That, you know, we had his anatomy scan, found out he was a boy and then like he was born.

So it was just like, yeah. And then with Noah, my youngest,  or my middle child now,  but he, I could have stayed pregnant. And that's after, that's a lot being said, because even after I was in the hospital for a month, cause I had polyhydramnios and preterm labor, but when I was discharged,  it was right before my third trimester. And I. Honestly loved it. And I didn't know what the future held. We wanted more kids, but I didn't know if that was going to be in the cards for us or not. So like, even in those hard moments, I was like, you know what, I'm going to find the best in this day. And  this is a gift that I am even carrying this pregnancy.

And, I think that's good for everyone to remember just because, not everyone is that blessed to have the experience. And that's not to say like, you're not allowed to complain because I used to think that that was not okay for me to, to be ever, even to this day, I have to remind myself,  I can be grateful to have children and blessed to have had been pregnant, but also like have days where I'm like, Oh my gosh. I wish they would just. Go to school, like, give me a minute, like,   all these feelings can, can exist at the same time. So I'm happy that you realize that and that you're taking it all in, because yeah, no one knows what the future holds and,  it's all part of the experience every bit of it.

I remember even like when we were trying to get pregnant and when we finally did like feeling guilty, like, or even like when we were pursuing like the functional medicine doctor, like we'd only been trying for six months, but again, it was COVID like we had nowhere else to turn. And, and feeling guilty, like, women try for so long and,  like, why we don't have a right to, to be this. I mean, I was putting a lot on myself. Like, I was very hard on myself. I  didn't understand why my body wasn't doing what it was supposed to do. Right? Air quotes there? 

Yeah, yeah.

Because you can only do so much. And he was tested and he was fine. And like I was again, air quotes the problem. So, even after only six months, I just like, remember feeling guilty.

Like we don't have a right to, to be upset yet. Like we were just beginning this journey potentially. And our doctor said like, grief is grief. Hard is hard. It doesn't matter what size or shape. Or how long  it's hard. And I'm in Facebook groups now where I'll see moms asking, like, especially second time fertility, they're like, this didn't happen.

Like, we're so confused. And women are like, I tried for 12 years and, you've only been trying this long. And I'm like, it doesn't matter. Because when you're in that moment, it's, you, you just feel like you're failing and you don't know why. And when there's no light at the end of the tunnel, Darkness is darkness, right?

Like, we can't compare. It's not fair to do that to ourselves. Or to the people around us. All we can do is develop compassion, and a newfound understanding for other people and what they go through, and,   we got to that point where we were, I mean, we've been married for five years, so people are asking us.

And we have been trying and no end in sight and at a certain point you just start being really candid with people and you're just like, yeah, we're trying. It's not working. You know, like you just start to make them feel uncomfortable because they're making you uncomfortable. 

Also, like stop with the suggestions. I'm not just going to relax or go on vacation. Like we've done that as if  like, you've never like thought of that. Like, Oh, it's 

like saying sleep when your children sleep, right. It's like, yeah. Yeah. We all know it doesn't work like that. 

No, it's not that easy. It does give us a new perspective You never know what people are going through how hard they've been trying to get pregnant maybe they have been pregnant and lost that was our situation and that was really hard because You know, we, same thing.

We had been married for,  it was three years. The first time I was pregnant. And then five years by the time we had a baby at home and, you know, everyone's asking, Oh, do you have any kids? And it's like,  It's just complicated and it's not that easy. And it brings up so many feelings in a situation when you're already trying to be strong and positive and like hopeful.

But I, I agree with your doctor. Hard is hard and grief is grief and it's all relative to everybody. I can relate to your feelings a hundred percent. In many situations, you know, we too only tried for six months before I started to seek help with a fertility doctor, cause I just felt like, I'm something wasn't right. And I'm glad I did entrusted my God because you know, I had a blocked fallopian tube and I  wasn't ovulating out of that side. It was only getting half the chance. And then my  levels waiting would have done exactly. And my thyroid levels were out of, I mean, there was,  Yes. I think everyone should just trust their gut.

And here's the thing too, for people listening, it's not like your doctor's at home with you being like, I know you've only been trying for six months. Like, true. I don't even think I said that. I was like, yeah, we've been trying for a year. Like whatever. Like I None of your business, to be completely honest. Like 

for real. Yeah. 

Um, yeah. So it's, but it, it's, it is, it's all relative. And  I felt like kind of. guilty going into surrogacy because I'm like, I should just be grateful that we have two children at home.  But every situation I've learned, every situation is different.

We dreamed of having a big family and we did the work  doing IVF and we had these healthy embryos. And that's  our decision to, try and bring them,  into our family or not. And, I think. Especially the Facebook groups can be tricky. They can definitely be so supportive. And there are so many, wonderful and supportive, nooks and crannies of the internet, but there's also so many that are like. Keep your comments to yourself. Like, why is that helpful? Like, cool. You tried for 12 years and I've only tried for six months. Like good for you. Or like, well, you know,  it's a lot.

okay. So you are getting close to having your second child and what a story. I'm just really grateful that you were on here today to share all of it because there are so many pieces there that I know. Listeners will benefit from,  I'd also love for you to share, you are a business owner and an author. Tell me about that. 

Yeah. So,  my husband is an overachiever and he loves to volunteer with anything and everything. , so he's on the alumni board at our alma mater. We went to Monmouth College in Monmouth. 

I went to Western Illinois, so I know exactly where that is.

 Galesburg. 

Yeah. Love it. 

Um, and so, you know, when he would go back for those meetings, like when our daughter was first born, he'd want to go through the gift shop and buy her something.

And all they would have is like the one type of onesie, like just the one little onesie with the logo. And he'd come home and he'd be like, ah, this is all I had. Or like, she already has this. So like, I couldn't get her anything. And we kind of just talked through it and together we came up with the idea of like, why aren't there more like kids books? About alma maters, like they're so important, especially if the parents go there together and meet there. So we started a series, called campus A to Z,  our company and our website.  And we write books about colleges and universities for kids and it's inspired by memories and we use.  So our illustrator actually went to U of I for grad school.

So that was our second project. And yeah, we just kind of go through and we share memories and each book is very tailored to the school. So that we can share memories with our kids. 

I love that. What a good idea.

I gotta share,  this one page that U of I alums will just love. 

Yes. 

We had to, we had to throw that unofficial little, little tag.

Yes, unofficial. Oh my gosh, I didn't even go to U of I and I love that page. I didn't either. I've been. I know  that's starting to grow a little bit and.

I love that. We'll have to share a link 

yeah. CampusAtoZ. com. 

CampusAtoZ. \com. Okay. Yeah. That's such a great idea. I love that. What a good \ gift to, to like give somebody a shower. That's so cute. 

So these are all on Amazon as well. We're starting to get into bookstores on campus as well. 

Oh, cool. 

So we're working our way navigating. 

Yeah. I love that. That is so fun. Well, Colleen, thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast. It's been a pleasure to get to know you and I appreciate you sharing your story. 

Yeah. Thanks again for having me. I'm glad I could be here.

 Thanks for listening today. Before you click out of your podcast app, be sure to check the show notes. There's links to everything. If you are feeling brave and wanting to share your own personal story to motherhood, there is a link to a book. apply to be a guest on the show. I love welcoming on experts in all different topics of motherhood and fertility.

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I hope you have an awesome weekend. I am just all in on fall right now. It is It's been gorgeous weather, finally. It is not hot, the leaves are starting to change, there are mums everywhere. I have a fall party with friends I'm going to this weekend, and we've got some soccer games with the kids. I hope your weekend is filled with fun as well, be sure to get outside if you can.

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You guys, I learned so much in just chatting with her for 45 minutes. So I'm so excited for you to hear that conversation, follow the podcast. So it'll pop right up in your app and you will hear from me again next week. Bye for now.