Besties, Babies, and Banter: Jenny's Story

In this heartfelt and humorous podcast episode, Jacqueline is joined by her BFF Jenny who shares her candid journey into motherhood. Jenny spills the tea on her experience with recurrent miscarriage, the emotional rollercoaster that followed, and her eventual successful pregnancy. She dishes out real talk on delivery, pumping, and postpartum life. With wine in hand, Jacqueline and Jenny dig into the ups and downs of creating baby besties and celebrate having their daughters just months apart. With frankness, wit, and a lot of love, they offer insights and encouragement for anyone navigating the complexities of motherhood.

ALL THE THINGS:

• Motherhood Intended website
• Join our FREE Motherhood Intended Community
• Follow @motherhood_intended on Instagram
• Download a FREE Month-by-Month Guide to Feeling Grounded & Focused on Your Journey to Baby
• Download a FREE Habit & Goal Tracker
• Leave a review for the podcast
• Apply to be a guest on the show!

Transcript

 Hey friend, welcome to another episode of motherhood intended. Today's episode is going to be a good one. your laugh. You'll hopefully not cry, but you'll learn some things that's for sure. Cause we're getting real in this episode. But it is on the longer side, so I'm going to get to it. However, I just want to get some important things out of the way first.

So for starters, if you don't already follow the podcast, hit that follow button. Obviously you found the podcast because you're listening to this episode, but hit the follow button. So that way every new episode will just automatically pop up for you. You won't have to wonder like, Oh, have they put anything out in a while?

Um, spoiler alert. Every week we put out a new episode, but it does the work for you. So just hit that follow button and you'll never miss an episode. Secondly, I say this every week, but join us in the motherhood intended community group. If you haven't already, there's a link to all of these things in the show notes, but it's a Facebook group that is really awesome for supporting women through their infertility and motherhood journeys.

And we'd love to have you there. You can follow along  as I share more of my personal life, and tidbits about the podcast on Instagram at motherhood underscore intended. And in both of those places, I'm going to be asking some questions as I kind of reformat this podcast for the new year, we've got some fun ideas in the works, but I want to make sure I'm putting out content that is interesting to you.

And so I'm just do a little temperature check, see what's going on out there, see what people like, see what people don't.  Should we add certain kinds of episodes? Should we take away certain kinds? I know what I like. I like a mix of it all, but truthfully, like. Before I get crazy with it, I just want to check in with all of you. 

So follow me on Instagram, join the Facebook group, would love your feedback. And then of course I'm still accepting guests for this season and for next. So if you have a motherhood story you'd like to share, or you know an expert in the fields of women's health or infertility or anything related to kids, fill out that form. I'm always considering guests to have on the show. You may have noticed the last couple of weeks have been solo episodes. It's for a couple of reasons. One, I really had some things that I wanted to talk about and address.

But also I really want to make sure I'm bringing quality guests onto this show and the vetting process is ongoing. But I want to make sure that we're staying true to the theme of this podcast, which is talking about things beyond the highlight reel. of motherhood and infertility. So things that moms want to know about, you're not going to scroll your feed and often like see something about  I don't even know, debilitating periods, right?

We're not always talking about that. We're not always talking about that. Right now you're going to see a lot of like beautifully curated family photos. And all the holiday joy, but  I know there are listeners out there who are going through some really hard times and you know what, it's okay to talk about those things too.

So fill out the form. If you'd like to join me on the podcast, as you know, if you've been an avid listener, it's a very casual conversation from one woman to another. So yeah, I'd love to consider having you on all of that is linked in the show notes.

I'm super excited to be able to introduce you all to my best friend, Jenny. Jenny's joining me on this episode and buckle up. It's a longer episode, but you're going to get a lot out of it. Not only do you get to hear her personal journey to motherhood, but we've been friends for 30 years. So this conversation is very natural. Also why it went long because we were just chatting away, having a great time, really opening up about our motherhood journeys. I hope you enjoy it. I hope you found some value in it. And without further ado, take a listen.

 Jenny, welcome to the podcast. 

Oh my god, I thought you'd never ask. 

I know. 

Actually, when I texted you to join me on the show, I was like,  I feel a little rude at this point. It's been two years.

I have not had you on. But you are, you are, you're in motherhood. 

Right. I was barren.  For a while.  

Uh, Jenny, ladies and gentlemen, um, cheers. 

Should we give a PSA to people? 

We should, we should. 

About what this will be and who I am. 

We should. Okay, let me, let me, I, I painted you a beautiful intro of Jenny and it all stands true, but let me tell you a couple things about Jenny.

Jenny is very frank. Jenny's word choices are often comical. 

And problematic. 

Problematic. I thought, thanks for admitting that.  

There's going to be a lot of sarcasm. 

Yes. 

Silliness. Silliness. 

Yeah. 

Swearing? Yeah! 

Okay, good. 

Why not? 

Thank god. 

We're just, yeah. This is not a polished show. We are talking about it all however feels right. And again, we're, we've been besties since first grade. 

95!  

Oh my god, was it 95?  Good luck to everyone doing the math on that. No, because I think fourth grade was 98. Why do I know that? 

First grade bitch.  

I know. Oh, so 94 maybe.  You know what? The 90s. 

The 90s. Three times to be alive. 

We've been friends for a while.

And we're excited to welcome you onto this episode because you're joining us for our mom's happy hour here. Sipping, sipping a cold shard for you.  

What, we call this a buttery or oaky?  

I actually haven't tried that kind. I'm drinking the sauv blanc.  

I can never tell if it's buttery or oaky.  It's fine.  

I usually like an oaky, but  I'm not a, I'm new to chard.

I know you are. I'm happy you're here with us. 

Yes. Okay. So welcome to our happy hour. This will be fun. We are going to hear. Jenny's motherhood journey thus far. It's very exciting because we are basically, we have created the second generation of besties.

I know, who would have thought? Like, never would we have imagined this. It's actually funny because we are so different in so many ways.  But like, 

But same, same, and a lot. 

But same, same, and a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.  So Jenny,  let's talk about your stance on, like, wanting to be a mom and children. I'm just going to preface this question with saying that Jenny, I  think referred to  the first time I was pregnant, or maybe you were talking about yourself, you referred to a baby as a spawn.

Yeah.  

Why did you respond? You're not wrong. 

You're procreating, you're birthing, you're, yeah, these are all normal things to say about children, I believe. 

Yeah, I mean it like made me spit out my coffee the first time I heard it, but it was  very you, and that's why we love you. But yeah, let's talk about what you felt about children, and then what changed. 

And, well, we'll start with this. When did you and Chris get married? For listeners. I was there. 

Uh, New Year's Eve, 2019, going into 2020, and we all know what joy that brought. 

Yes. 

That year. Yeah, we had been together, I want to say, for seven years by the time we got married. 

Dang, yeah. 

Probably ish. 

Yeah.

Six or seven, right? Seven? 

You met in college, but didn't start dating until after. 

Like, yeah.  End of 2013. Right after we got married. 

I know. Yes. Because it's so weird to me that he was not there. Because it was within months. Like, I don't remember a time before Chris. 

I know. 

Like, since a long time. Yes. So we've been together for a long time. But, yes. Married four ish, five ish. 

Yeah. And your wedding truly was, like, the

It was so fun. 

The best party. I mean, New Year's Eve, it was It passed. And then, little did we know, it would be like the longest time before we had fun again.  

Yeah, it was the last wedding. 

Yeah.  

So when you guys got married, were you on the same page with kids or were you just like, let's walk you through that?

Um, it was a,   it's a, I'm,  me, because I'm the problem, it was a, I'm open  to the idea. 

Yeah. 

And we'll figure it out later. 

Yeah. Which isn't honest. 

Because I never wanted kids.   I was a hard no on that for a very long time. 

That was where you were at. Yeah. 

Yep. And life changes. 

Sure does.

It sure does. And so,  I became more open to it, but still like, oh, I'm a selfish bitch. I don't want to like, Take care of somebody else.  I like my wine. I like my 

But also I think that's like very of you, like you're not the only one who  feels this way and so anyone listening I'm not even kidding like  hear her and that like just because you feel that way, like your feelings are valid if that's how you feel at one point but know that  That can change and that's okay. You don't have to like stick to what you've said. 

And like part of it was like, oh, I've been such a vocal like anti child person. Like you've made This is my identity. 

You've had a stance and like I can't go back on that now. And that's not true people. You can do whatever you like, 

that's what I kind of struggled with. 

Yeah. 

But, yeah, I think, I mean, Like, I'm part of, like, the DDC, the Dead Dad Club, and so I think that whole,  journey with my dad getting sick, opened my eyes a lot to, like, many things. One is, like, I can take care of somebody else, and, like, everything is fine. 

Yes. 

Two is, like, oh, it might be nice to, like, procreate and have a family.

Yeah, sure. 

And three, it'd be nice to have someone take care of me when I'm old, as well. 

Yeah, I mean, like, what a perspective. switch, you know, and 

yes, I mean, it didn't happen overnight, but over time that was like, probably the, it made me grow up. 

Yeah. 

And it like changed things. 

Yeah. 

I was not the same person. And so, yeah, that's really kind of, I think how the mind shift happened. 

Well, and I'm sure to like, I mean, that was a really hard thing to go through and like just having Chris alongside you Mm-Hmm. to go through. It probably showed you too, that like, oh wow. Like, yeah, I have somebody who's there with me. It's not like you're going into this uncharted territory alone. 

Yeah. Oh my God. No. He was like incredible during all that. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was never worried about him. Yeah. That was never the issue. It was me. 

Yeah. 

Again, I'm the problem  , 

you know,  I've always admired your honesty , because like. \So many people will get married and like say one thing and then be like,  I don't, I don't want to do that. That's not for me. Like, and the best thing you could do is be honest, especially cause like,  no,  which is good. Yes. I do know that it was not helpful when we were young and scheming up plans.  Um, for listeners, uh, we refer to ourselves as Lucy Nethal, growing up and I Do you think it's fate that we ended up naming our children with names that start with an L and an E?

I know. 

Because back next gen besties. 

It came to me. I like woke up one day and I was like,  Did we do this on purpose? Not necessarily like  close in age. Yeah, they're four months apart. It's so great. 

Well, I, I think it's  It's often those times in life that are really hard and unexpected that do shift us and change us.

And you know,  infertility , it's definitely not the same thing as losing a parent. Um, but  it definitely pushes you forward, whether you're ready or not, you grow up and you see things in a different light. 

Yeah. And, and not that this is your fault at all. 

I've scared all my friends. 

 Like, I would tell people one of the reasons I don't, I'm, or I'm unsure of having kids or I don't want to have kids is like, I would call it the trifecta. 

Yeah. 

It's like,  it wasn't just you.  I didn't have a single girlfriend or close friend who did not have a relatively, I'll say easy, but what I mean is, uncomplicated  just a relatively,  uncomplicated time getting pregnant.

Staying pregnant or delivery. I didn't know any single close. 

The limit does not exist. 

Girlfriend who had all three of those things. And I'm like, I don't know if I want a kid that bad to go. Cause 

it's a lot. 

Cause I've seen my friends go through it. Cause I am a geriatric mother. 

That is a whole nother thing. Like. 

Advanced. I'm an advanced maternal age mother. 

 Isn't everybody.  

Yeah. And so that like also kind of made me second guess. And really think things through. Um, yeah, because watching people who really want it, I felt like I didn't deserve it because I was like, I'm not willing to do that. 

And you were watching people do that. 

Right. 

But like, obviously, I was like, no, now that that is not valid information. 

Correct. So yeah, I'm listening. It's fine. 

Yeah. Do not compare yourself.  Because honestly, , the only way I can relate on that is like, When it came to having Lorelei, you know,  having a surrogate and I felt that like I almost felt  Embarrassed  like people are gonna judge me for doing all this stuff to have an I already have two children like I should just be grateful for what I have like I know but it's it's like a mindset shift and then even when We were like trying to match with the surrogate.

I was like, why would anyone pick us like we have a Children, like there are so many people out there who don't have any children. 

It's like who's sob story is like more sobbing. 

Right. 

And that's like not, that's not good. That's not real. Everyone's shit is valid.  And speaking of girlfriends and stuff, it's like, we definitely didn't paint, paint the best picture, like, even once, like, the pregnancy, getting pregnant, pregnancy delivery was all said and done, and we have our children.

We definitely didn't paint the best picture of motherhood. 

Because you're just talking, you talk shit about kids and husbands. 

We talk so much shit. And literally,  it wasn't until you pointed, it was, but like, when you pointed it out, because I didn't even realize that was happening,  with our friends.

And  You know, for a while, , our small group of, like, friends here in the Burbs, like, half of us had kids for a while, half didn't, and, like, the two of us would just, like, word vomit, like, how shitty our lives were, and then you guys were like, you're making motherhood sound great. 

I'm about to go on vacation, so you do you.

Yeah, you're like, that doesn't sound fun. 

Yeah. 

Um, but again, safe space, obviously,  but ever since you pointed it out,  I was more conscious of, like, sharing the good stuff, because obviously there's a million good things in motherhood and like, all the little moments and it's been so fun watching you do this too. It has, it's like wild. 

And entertaining, I'm sure. 

No, well, I will say, it took me like a minute to just be like, Is this real life? You were probably making fun of me because I was like giddy that you were a mom. 

You were more excited, hands down,  that I was pregnant, that I birthed, that I birthed a girl. You're the most excited person on the planet. 

Well, and it was really cool because the way we overlapped a little bit, you know, it was fun seeing you pregnant and go through this when, like, obviously our surrogate was, you know. Down in Texas, like, calling Lorelei, and so Hooking away, yeah. And I just never imagined that we would have kids at the same time.

Never. Well, you were a child bride. Peace!  

A child bride.  Yes, uh, listener, I was 22 people now. Um, by child bride, she means I was 25. 

Okay, well, 

I'm not disagreeing with you.  My frontal love or whatever, just like 

it was barely formed, 

barely formed. I mean, are we making sound decisions getting Josh? I love you.

But you know, that is feel 

 fairly worked out. But you were on that journey much Sooner than I was

this is one of the ways that like we could not be more different is like  I think i've been on the hunt for my husband since I was like 12 

I remember when we were little 

literally 

you'd say I want to be buried by the time i'm 25  I remember you saying that  and I definitely had a timeline but i'm not even kidding I think it was sooner than that because I was like, you know had no idea I was like i'm gonna be married by the time I think it was like 22 23 because I was like I was like i'm gonna go to college and meet my husband  That's why I'm there 

at the Harvard of the Midwest 

Harvard of the Midwest ladies and gentlemen at Western, Illinois University  Which I have mentioned before on the podcast because I had somebody who went to Monmouth College, which is nearby Galesburg, what's up?

Yeah  Yeah, for sure. But yeah, my timeline was ridiculous. It was like, okay Yeah, Mary or maybe I said engaged by 20 like it was specific  engaged by 22 married by 23 And then I will have I wanted four kids. Basically. I was like, I'm gonna be dumb by 30. 

Mm hmm. 

Yeah, like  Does not work that way. I had Hunter at 30, so, whoops.

But even that was like, oh my gosh, she's so ahead of me. She's gonna, like, have these kids and be done, like. 

No, yeah, never thought we'd be. 

Yeah, on the same, same. 

Yeah, well, because like you said, like, you started dating your husband, like, right after I got married. And so, I was like, uh, like, and I was definitely the first of, I had, like, one friend married.

And, And I did scare everybody after, once we started trying, because I started trying to have kids, like, way before all my friends. I was definitely the first to start trying. 

It was, like, also kind of, like, the saddest. It was, oh my god. I'll never forget, I was like, I've lost her forever. 

Yes, you were so upset.

And I was a bitch. 

No, no. 

You were little. 

No, I just took it as, like, you love me. And that actually brings up a good point. I'm just going to give myself kudos for this because while I did scare the shit out of you and all of our friends about the difficulties of getting pregnant. 

You were still a fun time. Is that what you're going with?

I was, but also you are like just stepping into motherhood with all this like, you're like, yeah, you want a happy hour? Let's do it. Hey, I'm going to go get my Botox. I'm me. I'm doing my thing. Should I not have called you out on Botox?  

No, absolutely. Okay. I mean, it's very mainstream. Like, I would brag about it if I would love to go to Botox.

Thank God. It's been two weeks. It's still subtle. I know, but when you told me, you're like, I'm back. I'm back. I feel human. 

When I stopped pumping, I was like,  Botox and just like drinking without. 

I'm back. 

Yeah. 

Okay, so I'm getting ahead of myself. So let's rewind.  We talked about you not wanting to have kids. Obviously, there was a shift. We talked about that. What was the moment that you and Chris were like, alright, let's do this? More so, like, you were like, let's do this.

Because him and I, he would have friend chats with me about like, will she change her mind, or won't she?  Him and I have a lot of similar qualities. 

Yeah, you are Chris, I am Josh. 

It's true, it's true. But,  we would have chats. 

Right.  Because he was, like, so passionate about being a dad, and I clearly was not. Like not there.  And so I think what happened was  it was like, I need baby steps where it's just like, okay, pull the goalie. Cause no one gets like knocked up,  on a whim.

Yeah. According to my timeline, you're like, I got at least five years.  

Because no one I know, right. It's like, right. And so  what changes? I got knocked up. 

Yeah. 

Without  trying. And I've learned that trying means different  to different. Like, 

yes. The term, like, we're trying means, like, very, yes. Different things to people.

Yeah, for sure. 

And so, like, I thought trying was, like, goalies pulled, I'm tracking stuff, I'm peeing on things, and I'm,  and I'm ovulating and we're gonna, like, bone at this second. Like, you know. That's to 

bone. That was an example of Jenny's word choice, but we're here for it. 

But like, that's what I thought that what trying meant.

Yeah. 

  And everyone has a different definition. Yeah. And so,

and you also hear people say all the time, like, we're   not not trying, but like, yeah. 

And so I guess we were maybe in that category where it's just like, okay, I'm going to get off birth control. And just like, cause I'd been on birth control for like, yeah.

Fucking like 15 years or 10, 12 years, however long it had been. No, God.  Yeah, like a very long time. 

Isn't it crazy? Yes. 

And just to like, make sure like,  everything was Gucci down there. Yeah. And then,  um. 

You could even help yourself a giggle on that one.  And so, yeah, I just got like, quote unquote, like, knocked up out of the blue, from my opinion.

Yeah, you were like, whoa. 

And I was like, what?  Guess what's happening. And it was like,  classic, interesting timing, because like, obviously all the stuff that with my dad had happened. My uncle had gotten like super sick. Young David had a stroke. He's fine now. But we were dealing with that. Then we like move in with my mom and we're renovating a house. \So it was just like chaotic for fucking years. 

Not ideal timing. Like you wouldn't have essentially picked that. 

Correct. And so. On one hand, I'm like, Oh my God, I just need a break. Like I was like, so looking forward to like moving into our home and having just like a moment of like normalcy. But on the other hand, I was like, I am a geriatric. Miracle, who gets accidentally, quote, like, yapped up at 35, no one, according to like my friends. 

According to Google. Or your friends. 

In the internet. 

Yeah. So I was just like, so it was kind of like, uh, interesting, uh, mix, yes,  interesting, like, yeah, feelings there. 

Yeah. Yeah, totally. And just knowing you and your personality, which I think it's like, to be mentioned because  not everyone's journey looks the same and I talk about this all the time on the podcast, but I'm not just talking about like fertility treatments or how you have a child. I'm talking about how you feel, what's going on in your life, when you meet your partner.

I mean, everything plays into it and aside from it. Children or marriage, you've always been the kind of person who is like needs some time with change. 

Yeah, don't do well with that.  I don't do well with big decisions. Yeah, I do so much better when things happen. And I have no control over them, like, this situation.

You always thrive. But it has to be thrown at you. 

Yes, I do. I am great in a situation on the fly that I just have to deal with. And so, I don't do well with like, making the decision. But for your own personal stuff, because you're a great decision maker for other people, I feel like. Like, you're a good leader. 

I'm the best. 

Oh my god. Yeah, I know. I was like, you paused. I was like,  I mean, in, in your career, when you're in our friend group, you're like, I'll book a reservation. Let's get this thing done. Yeah. Yeah. That's why you're Lucy. I'm like, that's a fun idea. I'm in.  Okay. 

So that makes total sense. the shift,  you got pregnant. 

Yes. And you had all the feels with that first pregnancy test positive. 

Yes. It was exciting and like, there's so much going on. So we're going to deal with this later, but I also had to like, I'm very healthy. I'm like a glass half empty person. 

Glass Half Empty? Really? Yeah. I'm just kind of like, I'll believe it when I, like, even then, I think I was like. 

Oh, yeah. I guess you're right. I just, when I hear Glass Half Empty, I think like, wah, wah. And you're not. 

I'm just a pessimistic person.

Sure. Yeah. But I also look at you as very factual. Yeah. So I think that's what, where it comes from. 

Right. So I'm just like, even then, I remember being like,  this is early and this might not work out. 

You're very logical. You had, you took the information that you had. 

Right.

And like adjusted your expectations. 

Well, because of people like you and others who are like more vocal about like infertility and loss and things like that. I'm like, this isn't a sure thing, everyone. Like the only people  I told was like my mom because lol was living with her. 

Yeah, kinda had to. Hey, we're not having afternoon wine tonight.

Yeah, because we were literally just about to move out  into our house.   so no one really knew, but I'm just like, let's not get ahead of ourselves here. And then, um, maybe like a couple of weeks, maybe two weeks later, like we move into our house and then I had a miscarriage. And so. I was definitely like, because I was so like logical, I was just like, uh, well of course this happened. Like blah, blah blah. Yeah. But then I was like more emotional about it than I thought I would be. 

I was gonna say, did it surprise you how you felt when that happened? 

Yeah. 'cause here I was thinking, oh my God, I am a geriatric miracle. 

Yeah. Looking what a rollercoaster of emotions. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. And I finally kind of like accepted it, got  excited. It was just like. A constant rollercoaster, it felt like. And so, was then like bummed, and I was like, oh.  But on the flip side, I was like, maybe this is good. Because now I know, like, oh, okay, I do want to have, to procreate. Yeah, it kind of like, procolidify your feelings. I would love to procreate. Yeah. Yeah.

Isn't it funny how like, I mean, I, I know for me,  obviously a different journey, but seeing that first, like, positive pregnancy test, even though I, it was something I always wanted and knew I wanted to be a mom, like, that was the only thing I've ever been true of ever, which is like, also, let's, let's acknowledge how weird that is because so many people have all these dreams and I'm like, pretty sure I was in first grade being like, I'm going to be a mom, but like, That first pregnancy test, it's like, literally a switch flips, and like once you see it, you can't turn it off, it's wild.

I know, it is, it is interesting. 

Yeah, there's gotta be something, obviously, like biological, your body, and your mind is just like, oh wow, here we are. 

And so, that happened, we dealt with it, overall, I think I processed it  in a positive way for the most part.  Um, and then literally like a month or two later, knocked up again. 

Yeah. I was just like, 

What were you feeling at this point? 

A fertile angel. 

I'm not even kidding. When you told me, I was like,  I am amazed. You are a fertile angel. 

Hopefully. And I was just like, okay, that was a fluke. Like, that probably, like, was not meant to be. There was an, like, logically, like, an issue with the embryo.

It should be noted that you work in healthcare too. 

Ish. 

Ish. I know. You're not, like, a doctor. 

I'm not a clinical, like, let the record reflect, so the people who are listening, I am not clinical by any way, shape, or form.  I don't want to false advertise. 

That is important to mention, but I, you know more than the average.

I do work in the space. You work with,  yes, so I always have thought that you just, You know more even about the environment in terms and stuff. So I feel like you are more, I don't know, than the average. I never thought about things like that. I was like, that doesn't make any sense. Health literate. Yeah.

That's a good term. Thank you. So how are you feeling the second time around? Were you as excited? 

Yeah. I was just, I remember like calling, I had to like do the, I had peed on the stick, did the blood test to like confirm and talk to the nurse. I'm like, is this, I don't understand. Is this real? Like, how's this happen?

Like, she's like, feels too easy. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. And she's like, no, like this. This is like, sometimes it's like, and I was like, all right, and so Again, like mind shift again cuz here I was like after the first loss. I'm like, you know what we're good I've learned some things and you know what I'm now we're in our house.

I'm gonna like live my life We're gonna have some stability and like yeah, and then the second pregnancy. I'm like, all right switching gears. Yeah, Gucci We're gonna like have this baby. We're in the house now 

Which I also think it's a bit of like survival mode right because when you're going through it, you're just like And that's, like, when I, you've always been logical, like, you're making sense of, like, what's at hand, and you're gonna make it make sense, or whatever, which is, like, a good quality, but also, obviously, like, tunnel vision sometimes, unlike what it is, but,  that's one of the ways, like, we're different, because I'm not good at that, I'm not, like, I don't, uh, the world is over, I don't know, like, this is not, I don't know how to fix this.

So, you had positive feelings about this. 

Yes. 

Okay. 

So I'm rolling with it again. Yeah. Yeah. We're, we're good.  I get to eight weeks, we go to the ultrasound, there's no heartbeat. Like, did not see it coming. 

Which was your first pregnancy? I, I can't remember. 

It was before eight weeks. 

It was before eight weeks.

It was like, I was probably like, six. Okay. So they would probably call that like, 

So you hadn't had like, that appointment. 

Right. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. So I was so early with the first one. Second one still really early, but like eight weeks ultrasound. Oh my God. There's no heartbeat Yeah And so like that was like  like soul crushing more than I expected it to be because I didn't even and I like to like think that i'm  a very like prepared, again, rational logical person. Like I wasn't even like prepared for that. 

Yeah. No one can prepare for that. Yeah. 

And so like, that was just such a bummer.  

And it all happens, like for those who listening, who like maybe haven't been through all of this or pregnancy yet, you know, you find out when you're essentially four weeks pregnant.

So you take the pregnancy test, you're four weeks pregnant. And these are a lot of big feelings to feel in such a short amount of time. Right. For anyone, like whether, however your pregnancy goes, you're like trying to just grasp on to like what's going on, and like process it, and so like for your first pregnancy, you know, it was two weeks of like,  you know, like processing, and doing it, and then like navigating a loss, and then, so, And again, a month long of knowing you're pregnant. Right. And like letting it sink in. 

And it's me. And so I can't lie and I can't fake drink and people know that's, and so I told, and I just told people like 

Yeah.  

Early on. 

Yeah. I like told every, like if you saw them, you're like, Hey, by the 

I saw them. Or if I was like in a drinking situation,

sure.

I just like, oh, I'm knocked up. Sorry. Like, and I would tell people and everyone was excited, so like a lot of people knew. 

Yeah, which is a double edged sword, and you probably know that from me, too, because I'm the same way. I just, I found it more stressful.

It was so stressful to fake drink. 

Yes, well, again, I was a child bride, so, like, I, the first time I was pregnant, I was like, Eww, my 20s, like, living life.

Ugh, I don't know that. 

It's hard. 

Yeah, 

I know. I remember, like, didn't Josh, like, you guys went to a brunch, right? And Josh, like, told 

He drank all my drinks.  Yeah. 

And didn't he like tell the bartender? I remember you guys went to like brunch in the city and he's like, just bring her out like club. No, no, no.

It was, it was, so it was, yeah, it was brunch. Just orange juice. Bring her out orange juice. But like that gave me so much anxiety and I just felt like I was always walking around with like a sign on my head being like, they know, they know. 

And so I didn't have the patience for that. 

No. Good for you. 

And I was just like, I told people as it like came up.

Well, and also, and I don't, I would love to know how you feel about it now. Like.  Obviously, it's a double edged sword because then there's like the weight of like, well, you told all these people.  Did you find it helpful or was it more overwhelming or a combination of the two? 

I think both. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't change it. I would probably still do the same. 

Yeah.  

Cause that's my personality. Like I'm not going to change who I am. 

Yeah. And everyone handles this differently. So there's no like right answer. For me, it was more debilitating to keep a secret and I definitely needed to lean and talk cause that's who I am.  But other people are like. That's too much like I would rather just like feel alone. 

Yeah So it did really fucking suck to have to like tell people or have others tell people but then the support felt really nice Yeah, so yeah Yeah, and so  then we were like, oh shit like Are we like entering this territory of like infertility?

Yeah  

And so  we were kind of like, we're just going to like put this aside. And like, now it's been such a rollercoaster, like the last, like few months, let alone like years, we're just going to now like live our lives.  

Yeah, because let's not forget all the, like, other personal life stuff going on outside of just, like, being pregnant and having loss and all that. Yeah. There's, like, just so much going on. 

And so, I think we took a break. Not a break, meaning, like, mm. 

Like, you didn't go back on birth control. 

Correct. 

After that loss, it became, uh. 

I'm going to, like, figure this out. 

I'm gonna conquer this shit. 

Yes. Yeah. Like, not that it was a game. 

No, but, like, I get that. 

But, like, kind of. 

Yeah, as someone who was in the game for a decade, I am just now coming off of it being like,  No, like, I'm done. Like, I'm done. Like, I done did it. Like, quit it. Yeah.

So this was in, like, June, July. And so I was like, okay, fine. I'm gonna, like, now do this the right way. I'm gonna track my shit. I'm gonna pee on the sticks. I'm gonna ovulate. I'm gonna check the LHs and all the fucking things. And, like, I'm gonna fucking, like, 

I'm gonna win. 

Yeah, I'm gonna win. I'm gonna do this. 

They're like, Oh, it's so great. You can get pregnant on your own. I'm like, yeah, I know, but like, 

thanks, but this fucking sucks. 

Yeah, this isn't sticking horrible.  Um, and so long story short, I get pregnant again for like five seconds. So I had another like quick miscarriage at like five or six weeks. So in October, so this, so I had a miscarriage, so I had a pregnancy, In March, miscarriage in April, pregnancy again in like, let's call it May, miscarriage in like, June or July, and then pregnancy again in October. It was like a wild year. 

It's a lot on your body and mind. Yeah. 

And so The third one was it  was like a positive pregnancy test and then like two weeks later, like it was another quickie. 

Yeah. 

Like it was just like, that one was, and so. 

Were you worried at this point? 

Yes. 

Yeah. 

That's when I was like,  then you get so far into it.

Yeah, yeah. 

And then you're like, here I am booking an appointment with like a fertility specialist. And I would be like, I, I just, at the time, like, even like, Yeah. After the first or second miscarriage. I was like, I don't know if I want to dive into like the IVF world 

a lot and it's scary. Yeah.

Yeah, because I'm like again, um, do I want a child that bad or to put my eggs through this?

Like  again, I was still like new to the, I was still new,

new to the game. I was still, 

but literally, yeah. 

And so  I had booked, I had done a little research. I'd called my insurance and I booked an appointment with like a fertility specialist.  That you recommended because I just do anything you say and I follow any recommendation you give me, blindly, because I'm like, I know she's researched this for 20 hours.

That is true. I'm like, I'm not an expert on much, but I can't hit me up. 

I will just blindly follow you and that's fine. And so,

Which was probably confusing too because like I couldn't relate like you were getting pregnant, but not staying pregnant. And so like that's a whole new thing to navigate.

Right. So I'm like, there must be an issue with my old ass eggs. 

Oh, yeah. 

That's what I was thinking.  

Frickin geriatric eggs. 

I was just like, this, like, clearly is a, like, a problem now, like, three times. Because the first time, they're like, oh, it's fine, like, obviously, yeah. One in four pregnancies end in miscarriage.

And I'm like, I know. And the second time, I'm like, mm, this hurts a little bit more. 

Yeah. Like, are you sure? 

And then the third time, I'm like, Bitch, like, this is, like, now  a problem. 

Yeah, which is also annoying that, like, there are so many things in, like, the reproductive world that I disagree with, but, like, like, the thresholds, like, you have to have X amount of miscarriages or losses before we're gonna do X, Y, and Z.

Right, right, right, right. And I think I've met that, right? I think so. 

I mean, again, mine was different. Mine was with my cervix. It was like, we're not sure. We're going to toss you back out there again. And like, if it happens again, what, what, like giving birth to a two pound baby? Are you, are you good now?

But yeah, I think three is like, unfortunately the threshold. 

I think it is too. Um, and so.  We had scheduled an appointment just for like an information session.  LOL, the day before, I had a positive pregnancy test. I'm sorry, two days before our appointment. 

I am forgetting your timeline. Okay, yeah. 

Yeah. So this was now December. So here I am, pregnant four times in a calendar year. And so we go, and I still go to this like appointment being like, hey, like, I don't I'm barren, but also, I'm also kind of pregnant, but TBD if this lasts. 

Can you tell me what to do?  

And so we kind of left that appointment just being like, maybe this is a sign.

Yeah, but also relatable, and you will grasp at all the things in these moments. I mean like, ugh.  

And so long story short, she stuck. 

She sure did. 

She sure did. 

She sure did. 

And so I birthed her in, uh, June. Who births her in June? Oh wait, no, August.    

 No, she was born in August. Which, spoiler, you already knew this, because we talked about how we're literally creating the next generation besties. What? Wild and, heavy year. Like, all the things.  When you were in it, and like, having these losses and stuff, like, did you even realize what you were going through, like, emotionally and physically?  Or do you look back now and you're like, 

A little bit of both. 

Yeah. 

I think  Like, family life had settled down in terms of, like, taking care of, being a caretaker for, for family members who are sick.

Um, and so, like, that was at least not a burden or, like, less of a burden , to feel. We were in a new home, so, like, that was exciting. But then, yes, going through all these, like, Then losses was just like a different layer of something new 

like your personal life I feel like shifted, but then you had all this going on on top of it.

Yeah Yeah so then it wasn't until like maybe after the second or third where I was just like holy shit like more so like the last Like five years have been wild. Yeah, and I just need 

you finally took a breath. 

Yeah Yeah, I just kind of like motor through. 

That makes sense.

That's just how I cope.

 I mean relatable. I mean kind of. You do and I think a lot of listeners can relate to this because it's like  When you have your eyes set on a goal or when again like in your situation or mine Like when you see that first sort of pregnancy test, like I said, I swear It's like a freaking switch and then it's really hard to turn off and I think that's like in hindsight a sign where you're like Oh, yeah I'm like, Oh, I can do this.

I do. I don't know how I'm going to do it. Like, cause a lot of people get pregnant and they're like, can I do this? Am I qualified? Like, everyone feels that way. You know, even if you really, really want it, I've always wanted to be a mom. And when I became one. Like 

super, like, when I'm like, okay, I know I'm going to like have a child now. Like, I think we're safe. I was still like, I don't know if I can allow it to like have this. A baby , 

right? I mean, same. We had, we even had four months of prep with Hunter, like in the hospital with literally people teaching us things. 

You had like the best  like teachers on the planet. 

Literally the, like the most silver lining on that situation.

Almost like intensive like parenting class ever. 

Literally. Yeah. Literally. Which is good 'cause we did not get to any parenting  . But  when I will never forget leaving the hospital and it had nothing to do with like, I mean, I knew he was healthy and fine.  The nurses reassured us. They're like, we will not send you home if he's not fine. You're, you'll be good. I was like, no, but like, are we allowed to do this? Like, we're allowed. And I'm just going to say it. I still, like, It wasn't until kindergarten, like he was five and I was sitting at a parent teacher conference and I was like  Oh, i'm the parent. Oh, um, am I supposed to be here? Like am I like is this people call me like mrs Like, oh, yeah I'm not.

Yeah  

Sorry, i'm sorry grown up. 

That's weird That's weird. Okay, so 

My birth maybe in august August 

wait, let the record reflect 

not june august Although I would have preferred, I'm just kidding. 

Yeah, but like June when we're done. Yeah, 

June when we're real done. Yeah, 

but I will say, and this is just from my perspective, obviously you were the one pregnant, but like watching you being pregnant.

It just went by so fast. 

It just went by so fast and I'm feeling it's not, no, ugh,  no, watching you be pregnant, honestly, was like, dude, crushed it. Like, watching you do things, like, I mean, you, you got back to working out, which is like something that you've always done. \You were out and about, you looked great. You, you, for the most part, you look great, but I'll let you talk about it. How was pregnancy? 

Oh, fuck that. I do this.  

We do relate on this.  It's hard. 

Um, 

our perspective. 

I don't have any positive experiences of being pregnant. So, I'm a little jaded as well. And when it comes to that,

like, didn't like it. 

Yeah. And thank you for being honest, because even if, like, 

it wasn't miserable. 

Yeah. 

Until the very end. 

Which is like, normal. 

Yeah, normal for everyone, but for the most part. But like, I just, it wasn't my,  it wasn't my, 

Not your cup of tea. 

Not my cup of tea, didn't like it. Cause I couldn't do the things like,  Yeah, it's like drinking. No, but honestly like grappling a lot like different. I I just had luckily like I will say I was Hashtag blessed. I did not have morning sickness Nothing terrible happened during my pregnancy So I did beat that 

and the myths aren't true because you did not have morning sickness and you got a girl 

Yeah, I think that's like my face didn't break out. Yeah  Yeah, um, she didn't steal my beauty. 

Yeah Side note, you were convinced it was a boy. 

Yes, but um, I just was like so, like I died every day at like 6 or 7pm. I had no energy and that lasted like pretty much my entire pregnancy. Like I was just spent. 

New level of exhaustion. 

Spent.

And I had to travel a lot for work and so like that was a whole thing and so by the time I like stopped traveling, I was what, seven ish, eight ish months pregnant and was just like then uncomfortable and grouchy and like. Miserable. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, that just, just wasn't right. 

No, but I just wanted to say thank you for saying that you didn't love pregnancy because 

do people say it that much that they liked it? 

Um, I think people are afraid to admit that they didn't like it. Oh, I'm convinced most people. Mm-Hmm,  . But, but actually, yes. I have talked to a lot of people who are like, I just love being pregnant. I mean, and that's good. That's true. But for anyone listening. You can say you don't love it, doesn't mean you don't love your child, doesn't mean you don't want to be a mom. It just means like, that experience is not my favorite. 

Yeah, and I like, I was like, oh my god, I have been pregnant  for years. Yeah, like before the holidays. Like that's what it just felt like. 

It's such a long time of, 

yeah, 

changes. 

And I wasn't like even, again, like willing to accept that this was like a reality. I don't think I really was like, this is happening. It's still like. Maybe like my baby shower. I was like, yeah. Yeah, cuz like once we did like the anatomy scan I'm like, all right, we're good like checked and that's at what 20?  20. Yeah. Yeah, and then I was like, well We're still like we're not in the viability.

Correct. There's always a milestone and pregnancy after loss. 

Once I got to, yeah. 

Is, it's hard. It doesn't matter when your loss was. You were always going to wait for the other shoe to drop.

Correct. And so once I got to like maybe, you know,  26, 28 weeks. I'm like, all right, like, 

like approaching the third trimester. You're like, all right. 

Yeah. Yeah. That's when I was like, okay, like we should probably like start. 

Also when I feel like you  were like visibly  I mean, sooner than 28, but like visibly pregnant, you know, you're getting like visibly pregnant and you're like, there's no denying. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So 

yeah.  Do you think that you, throughout that, like, Again, given your losses, do you think that you kind of pushed some of the excitement or reality of it all aside as like a coping mechanism? 

I mean, probably. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. But every like  milestone or ultrasound you get through, you like get more hope  I still had like a healthy dose of like pessimism. But then I was like, this one just, it felt different. 

Yeah. 

As time went on. 

Yeah. For sure. 

Once he got past, like,  the first, like, trimester or two.  But it felt forever. 

Oh, gosh. Yeah. Which is so funny, because, like, obviously now that she's here,  where does the time go? Like, how are months like? Like.

No, I feel like she's been here forever. 

Oh, that's funny. But also, what day is it? I just feel like I blinked and like, dude Lole is six months. Yeah. And I'm like, what? What? 

I feel like evie is older than she is. Like she's only, 

but also she's two what, two months? 

Yeah. Like a little over two months. 

A little over two months. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

But I feel like she's like, I've had her forever.

Yes, it's hard to remember, like, pre Evie. 

Yes.  And, like, yeah, she's just been,  a hashtag, like, angel baby that is, like, scary to me. Because I'm like, when is she gonna 

We can be scared together. Because I've openly talked about how Lorelei's also an angel baby. I know, so And I'm like, why are they so easy?

I know. 

Not easy. All babies are hard and to a degree, but I just mean like 

manageable, 

happy and like, yeah, man, 

I know what to do. Yeah. We're okay. Yeah. And so I'm just like, when is she going to like, fuck my life up?  

I mean, honestly, same. And if we are creating the next level, next generation of best friends, I'm going to pinpoint probably like 11 or 12. 

That's when it's going to get weird.  

And I get weird. But at least they know that, like, they're gonna I actually know a whole different generation, dude. I don't even know what we're gonna do. They're gonna be all Yeah. We don't even know. Um, okay, so your pregnancy love that you said that. I don't love that for you, if it wasn't that fun, but I love that it was, like 

Even I feel, like, guilty for, complaining, because so many people have it, harder, But yeah, just for me,  didn't, didn't love it.

Yeah, fair, fair. And I know there's people listening who feel the same way.  So let's talk about your delivery. Let's talk about it. Towards the end, and I'm actually forgetting,  how long did you go with your pregnancy? When was she born? 

Thirty nine and twenty five. So like. Two? Okay, yeah.

I was like, I knew you were like there, but I couldn't remember. 

I felt like I was 46. 

Yeah. I'm sure. 

Well, what made it really long and painful was when I was at 36 weeks, they're like, oh my gosh, you're two centimeters and like whatever effaced. And I'm like, is that like normal? Like, and the doctor goes, make sure you have your bags packed. I was like, I surely don't, ma'am. 

I'm sorry. What? I don't know. I remember when you texted me. And I don't have any experience with this, other than like, if we're either opening at the beginning,  or we're sewn up shut until the end, and so you were like, two centimeters. I literally, I will never forget.

You're gonna blow. 

Again, just like how like, I was probably way more panicked than you. I don't, I don't even think I fully diverged all of my emotions on you, because obviously that's not helpful. Mm hmm. Me, internally, not having the knowledge or experience of like this situation, obviously you don't either, but I was a ticking time.

It was like, she's gonna have the baby today.  Two centimeters. That's how it works. Right? Yeah. Like, no. 

Yeah. So here I was just waddling around. Like thinking I'm 

What a weird feeling. 

My vagina's gaping and I'm about to like flip this baby out.

Literally. 

But then fast forward weeks and like I was  slowly progressing, but she wasn't coming. And I was just like, all right, we're done. 

And even though you were dilated, like you weren't having contractions at this point, right? 

That I felt. 

That you felt. Okay. Yeah, that's a tricky thing. 

So I ended up getting induced because I was like, I'm done. Yeah, but also I didn't realize that when you're a geriatric geriatric 

Ugh, as, as people are.

Yes, as I am. They will sometimes induce you before 40 weeks because it's safer, you have like a less risk of stillbirth, something like that. 

I did not know that either until honestly doing this podcast and talking to others that it is, yeah, I think it's pretty standard now because there is so much research to back up.

Yeah. But the doctors go, I'd be surprised if you make it. So we'll just schedule this. I was like, 

okay, just like you said, I should pack my bags three weeks ago. 

And so I'm like, Chris, you have to finish the baby's room. 

Yeah. I mean, like, what other way can you be in that situation? You are a walking time bomb. 

Yes. And so, ended up getting induced. 

How did you feel  prior to actually having an induction date, did you have thoughts on being induced or not? Like, strong feelings? 

I didn't realize it was, like, kind of, not controversial, but I guess people have feelings about it. 

Yeah. 

I did a little research, talked to my doctor, and she made me feel fine.

And I was like, yep, like, let's get her done. 

Sounds fine for me. Yeah. 

Let's get this baby out. 

We done. 

We done. 

Yeah. 

Time's a tickin Um, and so, I mean, luckily, I, my biggest personal fear was just like the length of time, of labor that it would take. But in the back of my mind, I'm like, again, kind of my rational brain is like, well, you're kind of already dilated and stuff.

Like by the time, um, I hit  my last appointment, which was 38 weeks, I was already like three or four centimeters. 

Okay. Yeah. 

And so I was just like, I'm pretty sure, like, I'll be fine. Yeah. 

Yeah.  It's not like going into an induction when there's nothing. Yeah. Like, yeah. 

And so when I went in that day on a Tuesday in August,

In August, we repeat, her daughter was born in August.

Um, I was six centimeters. 

Oh, wow, yeah. And, like, didn't realize I was having contractions, I'm like, man, I'm just, like, really 

High pain tolerance. I'm a baller. 

I think I, like 

You have to be. Well, I think. 

Yeah, I guess. 

I'm the same. I didn't know contractions were ever fucking happening.

 I'm just gonna go with I have a high pain tolerance. So I go into my induction and I'm a whopping six and I got to like, skip a bunch of steps. 

Oh yeah. 

And it was like pretty chill and I'm like a tall lady. Some of my friends call me Sasquatch, which was really pleasant in college, you know?

Which also, what are you, five ten? Mm hmm.  

Ew. Five nine. 

God. Yeah. Well, honestly, when you said sasquatch, I started second guessing myself that it's not a sasquatch. You are tall. 

My friends are listening. Call me Sasquatch. You know who you are. 

 You know who you are. But, joke's on you, because apparently, sasquatches have a Better time birthing because they're so 

really 

a lot of room 

and that's a fun fact. I didn't know that. Um, my doctors told me so, um, 

I love that. I'm still learning things. That's cool. 

Yeah.  They're like often tell people just like have an easier time 

moving baby through the birth canal 

because they're bigger and  bigger. You definitely height. Yeah. Yeah. Like really thin. Yeah. You're like that as fuck.

Yeah. Um, and so, um, Yeah, I went in, got induced at like, probably like 8 or 9 a. m. and so she was born at 305 and. 

Was that like seven hours? 

Yeah, but like honestly, it was just pretty chill. I've, I did, um, pass out and vomit all over myself, but other than that. 

Let's not forget. It was pretty chill. I did vomit. Barf and like pass out and probably scare my husband, but I'm fine. 

That was just a brief moment in time. 

Yeah, and why did they say that? Oh, weren't you? 

I was like in a weird position and the nerve or the thing was blocked in my back or whatever.  It was too much on my back, I guess. 

For too long. 

Yeah, and I got like all of a sudden real hot. I was like, I don't feel well. And then all of a sudden I wake up and like there's some Six people in the room. 

Oh, you don't even remember doing it. 

I do kind of remember bombing because before  they gave me the epidural and I like pounded some goldfish 

and so I actually does. I'm surprised they weren't Cheetos. 

I know I did have Cheetos later, obviously.  Um, but I did pound some goldfish, so I do vaguely remember like bombing up some orange.  

There's a light dusting and some cheddar.  

Some sharp cheddar goldfish. 

The finest cheddar. 

The extra cheese, what's the extra cheesy one?

Oh, Flavor Blast. Yeah, Flavor Blast. Obviously nothing but the finest snacks. 

Things to pack in your hospital bag, ladies. 

 But no, so just alert. You could do that if you're on your back.  That was like truly the worst part of my  labor. 

Didn't a nurse apologize to you too for like not telling you to? 

So sweet. I had the best nurse, the best doctor. 

Nurses will make our break. 

And the best anesthesiologist.

Here,  I haven't really been a Evie or a negative Nancy, have I? 

No. 

Okay. But here's my positive. Penny. 

We'll always take a positive penny. 

Yep. 

Great labor. Easy. Peasy.  I do feel bad stating that because I know about the pillage. 

know this because it's not like you just walked into that experience.

Right. Just putting it out there. 

Yeah. That. Yeah. I had an epidural that was boom. I felt nothing. 

Putting it out there that it does happen. Like you said before, we painted a very scary picture of all the stages. 

I'm going to give you a really bright, bright moment, folks. And 

hear this, ladies and gentlemen.

I felt literally nothing. 

Solid birthing experience. And obviously epidurals aren't for everyone, do you? But like,  both of you and I were like, um, how early is tissue? 

So I got one pretty early ish. I'd say probably like two hours after I was there. 

Oh, okay. 

Before I even, like, felt, like  

But also because you were six centimeters taller. Yeah, I was It could be any 

Correct. My biggest fear was, like, it was gonna be too late. 

Did you also fear that it would wear off?  

Yes. I feared all the things. I feared that I've heard that people, like, will have half of them, like, numb, and they can feel the other half. Ugh. And so I was just like, I am 

We're going to make sure that's on deck.

So I got it right away. And then when my labor did start picking up, I could kind of feel contractions. I was like, Nope,  I want nothing, 

not good enough.   

 I could feel a little something, doctor, come on and 

turn it on up, 

turn it on up. And he did that. It was right as rain, right as rain,  and then I felt nothing. And I pushed for 22 minutes. 

Which, I have to say, not a coincidence,  my lucky number is 22. And Jenny is very aware of my weird relationship.

You sold it for me because my lucky number is 2. 

It is, it's true. I don't know if stealing is the correct term, but um, yes. Two is your number, and 22 is mine, and I don't think it's a fucking coincidence.  You pushed for 22 minutes. Yes. Also, I remember asking you, how did you know that? Because they timed it and told you, right?

Yeah, because they were so impressed. 

Never done it.  I'm like, two seconds? Yeah.  

No, I don't know if they tell everyone, but Maybe I did it. I don't know. Someone told me. 

Well, I'm also asking because I can see you being like what I do. That was amazing. How good did I do? 22, nailed it. I won this experience.  

Yeah. So it was like,  and I told the nurse, I was like, if I could birth a baby. 10 times over if I can go into labor and not be pregnant if like that was like some sort of like wish or something. 

Yes. 

That's how the world works. I would do it. Can we fast forward those nine months and just like do that again? Also, I will birth once a month. 

Exactly. Like that's fine.  Totally different experience, but like.  I'm just thinking of Miranda's birth and like watching her because I had never witnessed that and she had like and I remember telling you and then I was like skeptical to tell you and our other friends that were pregnant like just how  easy it was and I saved it with like  A thousand percent.

That's what I was about to correct. I'm like, how easy it looks from the outside. I genuinely look at her like No, but like, you're a superhero. Like,  what is life? But it was very fast, like even faster than yours. It was wild. 

Yeah, right. 

She must have been, I didn't even know, and she didn't know either. Well, she had been feeling contractions like the day prior, so she like, they ended up staying at a hotel across from the hospital. She was like, oh, yeah, just like closer because she's 45 minutes from the hospital. But she must have been maybe in your scenario, or I mean, she had to have been like pretty dilated.

We'll actually take that back. That morning, when she checked in, just like you, for  the scheduled induction, which was on Lorelei's due date,  which was confusing to me, because I was like, no, but like, shouldn't we just let her do this? And they were like, no, we don't actually want her going past.

Yeah, get her done. 

And with a history of like, delivering pretty close to the due date, like, she maybe could have gone like, two more days, I don't know. But witnessing it all, like, yeah, same thing, it was like, they broke, did, oh yeah, did they break your water? Did your water break on your own? 

No, they broke it.

They broke it, okay. 

I, like, skipped some things. They gave me Pitocin, I think, and then they broke my water. It was, like, a little pokey thing. 

Really? 

Like, truly. 

It's literally like a needle. 

a knitting needle. Ugh. And I was like, you're joking, right?  And they're like, no, this is it. I'm like,  all right, cool. Are you not?

I think I have, or is it just so tiny? No, I had my epidural at that point, I think. 

Okay. I don't know. It was wild. That's the other thing that like, okay, screw the movies because, you know, every time you see someone crying, they're like, oh, I'm gushing, my water broke, let's go to the hospital. I don't know anyone whose water broke on their own.

I don't know either. I know, I kept waiting. I was just like. 

Yeah, like, let me know. 

I know. 

Time to go. 

Yeah. 

Interesting. Yeah, it was very surreal experiencing it from the outside, but I was thinking of you a lot. Because again, you're like months behind and my other friend is like, even like a couple months behind and I'm like.

This is what they're going to do. And after watching her, I was like,  this is a beautiful and amazing. And like, you got this, like you got this, everyone's experience is different, but I'm really happy that you're hearing this on the podcast today because there are great birth experiences. 

Yeah. I did have a great one.

Yeah. 

So I'm very happy for that.  But then, 

but moving on.  

And so to this day, we still don't know someone who has had the trifecta of like, Easy. I know you people exist. I know you exist. You might not be listening to this podcast.

   a hard time  staying pregnant.  But then I had like an okay pregnancy and like obviously a beautiful birth, but then I was bragging, here's what the card comes in, about my beautiful birth and how easy it was. And then I just started like hemorrhaging everywhere  one day.

Yeah. 

Ladies. 

Yeah. If you feel like, who knew? Who knew? 

I didn't know. 

They say your first period can be a lot. 

Like heavier than normal. 

Yes. 

First period back after like, when you get your period back after being pregnant, the first one, yeah, they say that it can be like heavier than normal. 

And I am hemorrhaging, blood clotting, and they're like,  this might be normal, and I'm like, I don't think so.

Also, everyone's normal obviously is different because like you're, you think about like what kind of period and cycle you had prior to being pregnant and like going from that to like, yeah, You know, if you had late periods and now you're hemorrhaging, like, that doesn't feel right. 

So then I had emergency surgery because there was like still placenta stuck up in there. Everything was fine.  It was an easy recovery, but just so you know, no one told me. 

No. 

That was even A, a possibility, B, that like, you get a heavier period your first, I guess that maybe I kind of assumed that. 

I didn't know that, like. 

But I didn't like, think it would be like.

Wildly different. 

Yeah. 

Because it wasn't. 

It was, well, at first the ER lady was like, I showed her a picture. 

Yeah. 

Because I was like, I have to. I 

was smart, it's the only way. 

And she was like, oh, that's, That, that, that's normal. I was like, I don't think so. 

No. Which is a good reminder to trust your gut because you know your body and self. And again, just like we said, there's like a switch when you get pregnant and all of a sudden you feel maternal. You know yourself. When it ain't right, it ain't right. 

And then it just kept on flowing. Couldn't stop it. 

Terrifying. 

Yes. 

So not to like the graphic picture, but weren't you just like out and about doing errands?

Yeah, I was just like I'm going to Costco.

Living your life. You and the babes. 

Yeah. 

Yeah, 

and I was like, oh Cramp.  Yeah, it's like  This isn't right and then I was like, should I still get gassed? 

Yeah, but I have two more errands 

I was like, should I just like, will people notice? 

Yeah, like I think I'm okay. Well, and then it was crazy is because we were hanging out like a couple days prior like over the weekend and somehow this Came up. Well, oh no because you were talking about like dude, I think I got my period it came back Like I wasn't and your pumping journey wasn't done, but you were weaning, right? 

Yeah, so you were thought probably like maybe like I mean, 

I was just like Well, this is just what I think. 

Yeah. Yeah. And then I told you my story, which I only, like, see differently in hindsight, not even obviously knowing what was about to happen to you, but I was like, okay, no, getting your period back the first time sucks because it takes you by surprise and you never know when it's going to be there.

But my history with periods was like, I don't know. Terrible, I mean terrible. Heavy periods, like debilitating periods. So when I got quote unquote my period back,  I was in a dive bar in Michigan on a family vacation. So, yeah. And the comical part is that it was my first night out, like as a mom, ever.

With Hunter, right? 

Yeah, with Hunter. And Hunter had been home from the, I mean he was, Like six, five, six months old, but he had been only home from the NICU for like two months and so like that's kind of where I go. Yeah, he was like essentially a two month old and You know, I was like, okay first night out.

I'm going out with the fam. We're going to a bar. My parents hung back. Josh actually hung back to you because  he made a smart choice and like took advantage of like having help and got sleep. I was like sleep, huh? I'm going to the bar. Terrifying. Yeah, cuz I was like something's not right. Then I went to the bathroom.

Uh huh. 

Same thing. Hemorrhaging.  But I never thought twice about it. Like, I literally was like,  Aunt Flo was back, and she's a bee. And this is terrible. But I literally had to have my mom pick, pick me up from the bar. And I was like, can you, like, bring something for me to sit on? Literally. Because I was like, I, this, I can't stop it.

And it wasn't until, honestly, hearing your story, I've never second guessed that experience in my life. I was just like, that was terrible. And after hearing your experience, I was like, I probably should have gone to see a doctor. 

Yeah. 

Things they don't tell you. 

Yeah.  But it was fine. 

It was fine. It was short lived, we'll say. It was short lived. Right? It was horrible. 

It was bad for life, yes. And then it was fine. hospital recovery. Yeah. But like also  I had no idea that like you could have placenta  leftover. 

It's like retained, um, placental tissue. Yeah. Or like, um, I forget what they call it. 

Yeah.

Like something child, like, yes, it's like leftover, like childbirth.

Yeah.  

That's not the ICD tentative. 

Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. 

Something like that. 

But again, the mystery remains. The trifecta has never been completed.  Easy getting pregnant, easy pregnancy, easy delivery, and I'm going to dare to say easy postpartum. I don't think any of those things exist because you're still in the postpartum period. I mean like Evy is a little over two months. How do you feel postpartum? 

Again, like, I don't want to be blaming those. 

You please do. Tell, give hope to the women out there. 

Yeah. It's been a, it's been great, like, I, so also here in like theme of your podcast, what's your tagline? Like, it's not 

talking about things like behind the highlight reel, like, 

but also things don't always go as intended, 

never go as intended, never as planned. Yep, for sure. 

Yep. And so here I am thinking, Yeah. I've seen the TikToks and the interwebs. 

Yeah. 

I am just gonna be spilling out milk. Obviously. And just like pumping up a storm. And just having all this excess. And I'm just gonna be storing it. And I want to like breastfeed for like two months. I'm gonna have  so much back up.

Yeah, you're like, I'm gonna stockpile that shit. 

I'm gonna stockpile. I'm gonna get her till like four or five months. Mm-Hmm. . That was like my, my thought. 

Yeah. 

Because I was never strongly,  personally like, oh, I'm gonna breastfeed like forever or anything like that. I was just like, I'm just gonna get her through. Like 

Yeah. I remember being like, I, I'm gonna do it. I we're gonna, we're gonna get in there, but I'm, yes, yes. 

I had an open mind. Yeah. To all the feeding options. 

It wasn't like a big deal to you to, to stop or to go. 

Correct. Yeah. So I was, I was very flexible there, but in my mind, 'cause of the tiktoks. 

I was just like, I'm going to have this endless supply and I'm going to stockpile and then I'll be able to stop. 

I'm going to be a cow and I'm going to be proactive about this because that's what logic tells me. That's smart. That's working smarter, not harder. 

Yeah.  So this is going to be like a short lived thing, blah, blah, blah. 

Well, it turns out I have a low supply, and so I was only 

As do many. 

I didn't know. Who knew? Again. 

Well, I talk to too many people, but  I've seen everything along the spectrum, but like, you never think it, you never know, yeah. You're like, I'm gonna do the things I'm supposed to do, and it's gonna come out.

So I, yeah, it's just gonna pour out. I'm a cow. 

I'm a fountain. Yes.  Liquid gold, ladies and gentlemen.

Broughten out of me.  And so I was producing about like a third to about a half of what she was consuming once, especially once she was like three or four weeks in. Yeah. And so I was like, all right,  I'll do it for four weeks. Re evaluate. And I was exclusively pumping. 

Yeah. 

Cause she wouldn't latch. And like, frankly, I didn't try that hard. 

Relatable. 

Yeah. I like, so for anyone out there like, eh, I gave it a college try with the latching. And then I said, no, thank you. 

Yeah. I think you'll know, like, I think the people that go the extra mile that really want that experience are going to do all the things, but it's in that moment when you're like,  that's where I was at. They're like, so try a nipple shield and do this. And I was like,  I did. Yeah, I tried it. 

 So I made it to two months pumping. Getting her all the antibodies that I could cram in her little little body. And then we said, bye bye. 

Bye bye.  Was pumping harder or easier? The same as what you expected, I guess.  

Once I got into a groove, it was fine. 

Yeah, there's a learning curve. 

Yes, there's a learning curve.

Yeah, like the first three or four weeks sucked. Yeah, and so once I then dropped like here's a fun tidbit . 

Yes. 

One of the lactation ladies who was very helpful had said sometimes if you like drop a pump It like will still like your body will just adjust and sometimes it'll produce the same if not more and that was the case For me, so I dropped a middle of the night pump and then I was able to sleep more 

Yeah, 

and I was still producing the same.

I ended up producing like a tish more 

Oh, wow 

And so I was then sleeping more and I was like a happier person and like a well rested person 

That's really great advice because I don't think I don't know if I knew that either and like I didn't have problems pumping Like I had like such a crazy supply, but I also Always have chalked it up to like, I was like a robot.

Yeah. Like, I mean, I don't know if that's true for everyone. 

I was not taking care, I was getting sleep. I mean, I'd wake up to pump obviously cause Hunter was in  NICU, but like,  I was just a timed robot for so long that I think my body was just like, look alive, it's time. But had someone told me that information, maybe I could have like, not had to pump through the night.

Right.  I don't know if that's true across the board, but it worked for me. 

Yeah, everyone's different. Everyone's body's different. 

And so, I got into a groove. I was able to get sleep. Like, I slept from Ugh,  I hate to even say this. No. To the Publix. Like, I would sleep from like, 10 p. m. to like 5 a. m. 

And I'm 

amazing 

so because I dropped to like my 1 or 2 a. m. Pump 

and you and Chris had a good system going I don't know what your system is now because as we know as parents like Changes all the freaking time based on what they're doing. 

He likes to stay up late and I like to go to bed early So he took like 

Again, you are Josh I am Chris because that's what we did I would stay up late and Josh is like a more early riser.

I'd pump and go to bed at like 10 I'd be up at like 10 Five. Yeah. Or whatever. She would get up after her, like 

teamwork, make the dream work 

her middle of the night feed. Chris would do. 

Yeah. 

And then he'd go to bed. So we had a good system down. And then,  these blessed angels just, 

I know, 

started sleeping through the night.

And then at two months I said, I'm done. I, I got further than I thought I would and I felt good about that. 

 Did you want to be done because you felt that, like, you, like, the effort wasn't worth, like, what you were pumping? Or where was your mind at with that?

It was a little bit of both. It was that plus with, like, science thing. Yeah. Based on the research and, like, what I talked to you about, like, what are the true benefits of breast milk? 

Those antibodies, you got it. 

Yeah, the antibodies, you got it. Like, that is best. 

Right. 

So I was just, like,  it wasn't worth the squeeze.  

Pun intended.

And so I said, You know, she's also sleeping through the night. I'm good. 

Yeah. 

We're good. So we just did the transition. And I became like. Back to my normal person.  

Isn't it wild how a shift like that can be like, yeah Oh, so my body's not being used anymore for something 

and honestly my body had been so Messed up and on a roller coaster for like over a well I was pregnant and then like a year of being pregnant on and off.

So I was just like I just want my body back. 

Yeah, which I think is really relatable to a lot of people, especially navigating infertility. I mean, like, even without being pregnant, your body is, whether you're going the IVF route or whatever, you're giving yourself shots, you're on medications. Like, it is a longer journey when you are navigating infertility and loss than just those nine months. There's so much tacked onto it. And it is just like, 

my body has been through Enough. 

Yes, 

and I'm I'm good. I'm ready for it. 

Yeah, and honestly, I think anyone listen Like you'll know when you are ready and for some people it could be an eight month journey a year long journey And you feel right as rain  as rain  definitely, it's individualized but I mean, there's something freeing about knowing that like, alright, you're gonna set that aside and you'll know when you're your best self and you're gonna be your best version of a mom when you are feeling great.

I'm like so happy now. 

Yes. 

Not that I wasn't happy before, it's just I feel like I can give more attention. I'm just like a better person. Yeah. And like that's how I knew. And I felt, not to like make it all like rosy and like fucking sunshine and shit, but like I did feel like that guilt.

Yeah.

like, why do I feel guilty? 

Yeah. Right? 

It's like a built in mom guilt. 

Yeah. 

Like just you instinctively are like, well I could be giving this to you. 

And I'm like, am I so selfish? Is this like my like thing? No. 

Yeah. 

I had to like 

Good for you. Yeah. 

Then like rationalize and be like, no. so much. Bye. Bye. She's fine. 

Which is where your logic is so great because like that is so helpful to be able to like find that piece, even though you're having all the mom feelings. 

I would, I would totally feel that. I would feel like, Oh my God, like am I being so selfish right now? 

Yeah. It's unavoidable feeling that way.

But I have to be like  snap out of it.  

Cause the big picture you're actually being a better mom by feeling the way you're feeling, which is feeling good. 

So long story short, like she's still fresh.

It's fresh. Like the fourth trimester is technically till three months, like postpartum. So like, that's why I'm like, you're, you're in it, but you're doing it. You're feeling good. 

And we're feeling great. 

Love that. 

And so, also think  having a baby later in life. 

There are definitely perks. Yeah. 

Like, yes, I'm like more physically exhausted and is it hard to get off the ground? It sure is. 

Yeah. It sure is.  My mom has actually said that before.  Like, this is why we had kids in our 20s. Like, as a grandparent now, and I'm like,  30 things for the 6 month old, like, my back hurts. I know.  

Like, I wore the baby Bjorn with her for a while and I was like, oh.

Yeah, like, I'm sweating. This doesn't work out. 

Yeah.  I think having like perspective and just like being older and 

Knowing yourself more too like as a youth like I'm gonna say youth like in my 20s I wouldn't have ever had like the things that you're saying now I wouldn't have ever known to even like take care of myself or prioritize that and that's already hard enough in motherhood like prioritizing yourself But as an established, I'm gonna say like 30 something like we are like You We have lived a life  where we prioritize ourselves for a long time, which is  good and bad, right?

Yeah. I know. 

Adjustment, but like wisdom. 

I know.

Frickin wisdom. 

Right.

We said this at the top, but like never thought we would be ever having this discussion together and it is so great. I'm just so happy for you and Chris and I'm so happy that we get to like do this together. Again, my journey was like all sorts of weird and wild and  the fact that we have little girls months apart is just amazing.

We should say that. Evie was a surprise in terms of   her  sex. 

I didn't even ask you. Yes, yes. 

This is important because 

it's important. 

I was convinced she was a boy for many reasons. But also self preservation to not be disappointed.

Correct. You were logically protecting yourself from disappointment. 

Obviously knew you were having a girl. 

Yeah. 

And our other friend was having a girl. And I was like, well, here's my negative answer. 

Obviously gonna have a boy. 

Obviously I'm gonna have a boy. Plus  at our 20 week ultrasound or anatomy scan, the ultrasound tech dropped,  a him or a he or a his at one point and we're like all right cool we're having a boy no and all and it just felt like we were we kept getting yeah our baby shower like a lot of like

leaning towards boy things just now I do feel like you were also giving off 

boy energy because I think I was like Trying to 

you manifested those lives.

Yes, they were like I need to protect myself 

Yeah, I get 

my little girl so bad. Yeah, I like I don't want to be left out. 

I remember feeling that way when we were like finding I still had to know like ASAP like  as an outsider I will say like at first I was like it was killing me I was like yeah you had I just need to know  is Lorelei getting a bestie or boyfriend tell me now  

yeah 

but Ben once It came to, like, we were in the final, we, I was there.

I was there. This is your final crash. I was so excited about this whole experience for you that I'm literally inserting myself like I was, but once you had that appointment where they were like, pack your bags, I was like,  This is so exciting. Like, I can't wait. I'm just so curious as to when the baby's going to be born, but also, like, it's a boy. Is it a girl? Like, I don't even care at this point. It was so exciting.

It was so fun to be surprised. 

Yeah. 

But I'm very glad I was, like, psyching myself out that it was a boy. 

Yeah. 

Because when they said it was a girl, we were, like, flabbergasted. 

Oh, my gosh. I can only imagine. 

We, like, were just so shocked, and it was so fun, and I was just like, okay, thank God. Not that I just I just wanted a girl so bad. 

Life circumstances , like you said,  our close group of friends, like again, never thought of it all aligned this way, but like three babies within months of each other. So fun. 

Yeah. And I'm the oldest girl, as are you. And so I know the burden she will bear.

Yes. 

The oldest girl. 

She will take care of you. Yes. I know what you're getting at, and we know that. 

Yes, I know that she will take care of me my old ass age.  But it was just like so fun. 

Yeah. 

To be surprised. 

So exciting. Last question, because this is just fun. And I'm thinking back about when you guys were thinking about this. Since you were being surprised, did you have names for both? And let's talk about that real quick, just to like end this Awesome. Fun. No. 

We had two girl names picked out instantly. We both agreed on it. It was so easy. And I was like, this is meant to be, then I was like, this  is too easy.

Push it down. She has feelings down. It's a boy. 

It's a boy. It's too easy. 

Yeah. Yeah. We just  whoever's listening, let it be easy when it does feel like it could be too easy. Just let it be easy. You know what? If it doesn't. Pan out that way or just save yourself the stress. 

My motto is have low expectations. So you're never disappointed. 

That is a  gentlemen, Jenny.  So that's, you know, my motto, care less, make more. That's the difference. It does. Care less, make more is a phrase, and I've talked about it actually on the podcast, which started with us. I believe it was the day we were playing beer pong in the lake in Wisconsin.

Yes.

In Green Lake. And I was just like launching them and they were going in and I was like, Giving zero ass and like care less make more and then you know it's stuck And I was like, okay care less make more. Um, that does not apply to infertility  People will tell you that it will Just like on vacation just get drunk You'll get pregnant or just care less No and like all the research and all the things you learned and did through your pregnancy and delivery I wouldn't suggest carrying less. You were educated and that's great. So it doesn't apply.  Yeah, your motto is pretty good though. 

I know. So we had no boy name, none. It was truly the only thing we argued about. And probably have argued about since is just, it was just boy names. And so literally we were like, I think a few days before my induction and we were so desperate that we walked through the cemetery.

Oh yeah. You can tell me that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Solid idea, honestly, especially because a lot of those names are back, like, like, you know, older names. 

Well, we got nothing and then we're like, In the, labor and delivery, and we're asking the nurse and the doctors if they've heard any, like, boys names lately.

Oh, that's a good idea. 

We're like, we got nothing. We told them, we're like, we got girls names, but we got nothing for boys, and our nurse was like, normally I wouldn't tell you this, but  based on the baby's heart rate, I think it's a boy. 

Oh, I didn't know that. 

Because apparently, like, during labor, boys heart rates might be lower, I think, and it was, like, a little lower.

I didn't realize they said that to you. 

They told it, and we're like, what? 

Oh my god. 

And we're like, this kid's gonna be nameless for days, and we're like 

It's kind of annoying that she told you that, knowing you didn't 

And we're like,  literally that's the thing we would fight about the most.

Yeah. 

Just, like, because I was so Over it. Yeah. I'm just like, hopefully it'll just come to us. 

We've always kind of been that way. 'cause I remember you because I mean, again, I'm the opposite. I would like get a positive pregnancy test and like have a, a name. Mm-Hmm. Ready to go. Go. Okay. Wait to shout it.

Yeah. And you've always actually said this and people do this and I think it's a great Mm-Hmm. way to do it. But you have two names. 

Yes. We had two names. 

And you see the baby and then you just decide. 

Yes. 

Yeah. 

So we did that. We had our number one and  obviously it was Evelyn. 

Yes.  

But don't name your kid that because I feel like it's getting popular.

I know. Can you guys quit it?  It's really pretty, but it's pagan.  And so, yeah, I was like, I want to see the baby.  That was just me personally. We didn't even have one of those options. 

Yeah. And that was because you weren't agreeing or you just literally weren't passionate about anyone. Yeah.  

The girls just fell. Together so easily and we both agreed and it's meaningful for both of us Yeah, all the things and I just like family names. Yes, it just worked out so well. And so for boy names like it was 

I know it again. I am inserting myself into this process.  I was stressed for you,  like I even like, I'd be up at night and would like be googling names. I texted you some names. I was like, this could be a curveball. I don't even know your vibe. 

And my mom's just like, my mom couldn't take it. She's like, just find out, just find out and put us all out.

Like, well, towards the end, I remember you even mentioning, and I still didn't think that you would do it, but I think you were feeling the pressure too. 

I was starting to be like, let's just find out. 

Yeah. 

Then we'll know. Cause every point when I was like, did you ask? And you're like, no, we're just gonna wait for somebody.

We were going to wait. 

You had gone so far. 

 If someone else like fucked up with like a pronoun, while during an ultrasound, that's right, we were going to ask, you'd be like, just tell us. 

Well, cause that is kind of what messed it up. Cause you were like, now you're leaning towards like, well, what did they mean to say that? Is that accurate? 

So also ladies, if you take anything away from that or gentlemen,  maybe a dude or 

1 percent of our listeners is male, but we hear you. We see. 

If you go to an ultrasound and the ultrasound technician or sonographer or whatever they're referred to as says a pronoun, it does not always mean that is the,  sex of your baby.

Take it with a grain of salt. 

Yep. 

And didn't they tell you that like, sometimes, again, they're doing this a lot. They're doing all these sonograms and it's like default to something. 

Person might have had  Boy or boys of her own. And that was just her default. 

Or maybe the one right before you was a boy and they wanted to know, you know, like, so just hopefully it doesn't happen because it clearly play with your mind a little bit  when you want to be surprised, but like, take it with a grain of salt.

Great advice.  Great advice.  Speaking of advice. To end this, is there a piece of advice that you would give? I know I'm going to put you on the spot, but also I feel like you're going to like hit it. 

 Okay. Now I'm stressed. 

What advice would you give to somebody who has experienced a pregnancy loss, a miscarriage, and then has gone on to have a successful pregnancy?

In that transition, is there a piece of advice that you would give to listeners who might be navigating something similar?  So like a pregnancy after loss, is there a piece of advice that you would give to somebody in that situation?

Ooh, good question. So, my advice is if you find yourself pregnant  after having losses before is no matter what you do, it's the right thing to do.  No matter who you talk to, what you share, it's the right thing.  I know for me, the right thing  was to like try to cope,  try to accept, but also try to be prepared.

But that was just like for me and my personality. And so there's never a right way.  but I did find it helpful to tell people, cause I just couldn't handle the, secret, the burden, the secret keeping, like, I just found it much better to be open about it, or as, like, open as I felt I wanted to be, 

yeah, 

because, even though, like, the scary thing of having to tell people if it doesn't work out, I think it still outweighs, um, You know, the positives of people like being there for you.

So many people have been in your position. Obviously there's so many women who have had loss that I just think it was easier to be open about it.  And just like hope for the best, but also be prepared. But again, that's like my, 

Yeah.  No, I think  that is really great advice. I mean, you can do a quick Google search and learn that one in four pregnancies ends in miscarriage. Now, reoccurrent loss is a different story  but it's also way more common than you think. And it is a lot to carry alone and, um, you nailed it on the head. I mean, that Right for you. It's not a one size fits all. Everyone's going to navigate this differently. But it's a lot.  I, I, I can agree with you.

Like I always also felt, I'm glad that I shared about it because it'll change you. Like you won't think it will, but like years down the road, you'll know that these losses, it doesn't matter if it was brief or longer, like, It does shape who you are going forward, and it's also going to shape the mom you end up being, regardless of how you get to motherhood and how you have children or adopt or surrogacy or whatever. So I think that's, that's really great advice. 

And a loss is a loss. Like, I think I felt, especially after the first one, when it was only like six weeks. weeks. I was just like, does this count? I think I like legit asked my doctor, like, does this count as a pregnancy? 

Yeah. 

And she's like, yes, of course.

Yeah. 

And so I think that  is like very important to state. 

Yes. I think so too. 

because a lot of my losses have been early, like the longest. Out of all my losses was eight weeks and I know many have gone, like obviously many women have had losses later and later in the first or even the second, third trimesters. But still a loss is a loss. And so I think that's important to know, 

A hundred percent, a loss is a loss, and you don't have to  feel any kind of way, like, just feel your feelings, everything you're feeling is valid. Like we said, everyone's situation is different and everyone's feelings are different about it, but even as someone who had, My first loss is, you know, with the twins in the like second trimester.

I still felt that way. I still felt like I'll never forget, you know, after, losing our second twin, it was, I'm in the hospital and they're asking me things that I was not prepared for. You know, they're asking me about, do we want to name them? And like all these things. And I just felt both ways.

I was like, I'm a shitty mom if I don't, but also like, I just wrapped my head around this situation, but also, you know, in my situation, as everyone's is, is different. And I,  you know, I delivered baby. So it was, it's just, there's no like, it's a very blurry lines. And even with Maren, I remember Googling like, is this a miscarriage or a stillbirth?

Like I'm 20, 20 weeks in one day. And like, guess what? It doesn't fucking matter. Right. It just doesn't. A loss is a loss. It was your baby. And even if you didn't even see your heart. It's it's really the dream that you're losing, right? It's obviously a baby, but it's in generally speaking It's the dream that you had for a minute and you lost it and that's like the hard part  

for sure 

So thank you for sharing that piece of advice I think that's really helpful to people out there because I know there are people who are experiencing the same way and Pregnancy after loss It's hard. but here you are and you're thriving postpartum and Evie is the best. And we'll just keep, uh, knocking on wood that our daughters are just angels 

and best friends. 

Best friends. Dude, they're going to be best friends. I'm going to force them to be best friends. I'm going to be like, Oh, you're going to like each other. Cool. We're going out together. 

No. Obviously. 

Obviously. Obviously.  I'm just being you. I'm playing devil's advocate.  Cheers.  Thanks for joining me for this happy hour recording 

bye. 

Bye. 

That's all for today's episode. Thank you for joining Jenny and I in our best friend. Happy hour. If you've experienced some of the things that Jenny has, hopefully you don't feel so alone in those experiences. And if you are yet to become pregnant or give birth or you haven't hit the postpartum stage yet, hopefully you have some takeaways from this. Cause it was a very real and honest episode and that's what I'm all about here on the podcast. I just want you to know that,  motherhood and pregnancy and fertility,  it's not all rainbows and butterflies, but it's also not doom and gloom either. There are going to be ups and downs through it all. And at the end of the day, as long as you can kind of zoom out and, know that it's not all going to go just like perfectly according to plan.

I promise you, you will be able to digest the experience that much better. And this applies to motherhood too. When you are raising your kids, I know I had this like whole thought in my mind about, okay, infertility is a hard part. Once I have the kids, like I'm going to crush the mom game. And I will say that I think I'm doing my very best, but there are ups and downs and it is not All sunshine.

Okay. It is. It's hard. It's hard, but it is the most rewarding and amazing experience.  And if you're not there yet, I truly hope that One day you'll experience it for yourself. But until then, take it all in. Listen from us. We're giving you some real experiences here on the podcast.

All right. Thanks again for listening. Follow the podcast, leave a review, hit the fifth star. If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to reach out with any questions and you'll hear from me again next week.