Rare Diagnosis, Real Courage: Casey's Story of Love, Loss, and Denys-Drash Syndrome

In this final episode of Season 4, Jacqueline welcomes Casey Hawkins, who bravely shares her personal journey of coping with a rare disease diagnosed during pregnancy, the birth of her rainbow baby, experiencing a second-trimester miscarriage, and the emotional recovery that followed. Casey discusses the challenges of a difficult pregnancy, the subsequent grief from her loss, and the healing power of community support and therapy. She also touches on the significance of honoring her children and finding strength in vulnerability.

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Transcript

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Hey friends, welcome to another episode of Motherhood Intended. I don't know if you can tell in my voice, it's always hard for me to know on my end how I actually sound until I listen back to an episode,  and I'm like, oh, huh, that's how I sound.

That's how I sound. To me right now, I sound extra raspy and I'm drinking a medicine ball from Starbucks. Do I have an actual cold virus? I don't know. I mean, it is like nine degrees out here in Chicago today, and there's always something going on this season, right? There's something going around at all times.

 My oldest son has been coughing a lot, congested, but like not a fever. So like still going to school,  still acting fine, but just like can't get rid of this cough. He also has asthma, so it gets aggravated very easily. My daughter, poor thing, her eczema keeps flaring up from the dry weather. I mean, we're just, we're just in it.

We're just in, in the winter season.  So I'm going to chalk it up to that because  other than my throat,  I feel great. I feel really good.  We're busy this, Christmas season, whether you're a parent or just, you know, just, you know, a woman doing all of the things this season.

It's a lot. It can be a lot. And over the years, I've always learned to reprioritize and scale back, but it's hard because I'm just one of those people. I get really excited about things and I just, I want to go all in. It's also a hard season for anyone who is battling infertility or navigating grief, whether it's the loss of a pregnancy, a baby, a family member, a parent, The holidays can hit extra, extra hard.

So I just want anyone who's going through that listening to know that, you're not alone. It can be a very hard season. Take time to yourself when you need it. Give yourself grace. Focus on things that bring you joy, but also know that like the sadness and grief, it's gonna be there. You can't push it away. It's just something we carry with us. So know that going into all of your holiday celebrations and take care of yourself. 

So before I get into today's episode, I have to mention that it is the last episode of season four. That's right, last episode. Then we're going to take a break for about a month and I will come back in the new year on my birthday, which is super exciting because I started the podcast on my birthday a couple of years ago and yeah, we will be coming back with season five, which is wild.

I'm excited to be hitting that a hundred episode mark in the early new year. We've got a lot of fun things coming up. I am working on a. benefit event. More to come on that soon. I'm working on support groups. I'm working on a book.  And speaking of books, I'm starting a book club for anyone in the Motherhood Intended community.

So if you haven't yet, join us in the Facebook group. Everything's linked in the show notes, so I'm not even going to ramble it off for you here. Just so you know. Check the show notes.  But yeah, our first book club  we're going to be reading Abundant Ever After by Cathy Heller, who you've heard me talk about a million times, but her newest book is all about, tools for creating a life of prosperity and ease.

If you're not familiar with Cathy, she's a podcast host of the Cathy Heller show, which is now called Abundant Ever After. It used to be called Don't Keep Your Day Job, which was her first book, and she's just really awesome. I went to her conference.

I'm always inspired by her. I took my podcasting course through Cathy, and I think you'll all really, really love, her book Abundant Ever After.  Anyone who's wanting to join the book club, there will be a form coming out soon in the Motherhood Intended Community group, so you can sign up for that.

The first 10 people To sign up for book club will receive a free copy of the book a free hard copy  she does have it in audio as well  I myself often am more so listening to books on audio these days , but her book is really beautiful and I just love it. It's a good like resource to have so yeah First 10 people who sign up I will send you a free copy of the book And then in February we'll meet up on Zoom and have a little book chat.

I'll do some fun giveaways. We'll do like a little Gallant Times's day meetup to discuss what we read, what we thought, and it'll be fun. It'll be a good way to meet other women in the community. And yeah, take a little time for ourselves. Be on the lookout for more information about that. 

So today's episode,  I have the pleasure of talking with Casey Hawkins. She's 33 years old, lives in Ohio. Her and her husband got married back in 2018. They've been together for almost like 10 years though.

Casey is joining me today to bravely share her story, which involves  a rare disease that was discovered at her 20 week scan, a second trimester miscarriage, and  her rainbow baby. So her story is very heartfelt, very honest, very raw, very real.

And as you know, that's kind of what I'm all about here on the podcast because life is Especially in motherhood is not a highlight reel. And there are so many beautiful moments to being a mom and, and experiencing the journey to motherhood. But there's a lot of moments that are really heartbreaking and hard as well.

So in this episode, she'll discuss the rare disease that was new to me. I had never heard of it before. And she'll also kind of talk about her grieving process and how she navigated those feelings of losing her daughter and her son and just being a mom through all of it. Take a listen.

Hi, Casey. Thank you for joining me on the podcast today. Like many other moms who have but on the show, you are very brave and wanting to share your story.

And I am here to welcome you on, because I think it can be so powerful to let other women know that they're not alone in their experiences and just healing for us moms, as we were talking about before I hit record, just to kind of work through our journey and kind of look back and take a look at everything we've been through to help kind of move us forward. So thank you for joining me today. 

Thanks so much for having me. 

. Let's start at the beginning and tell me a little bit about you and your husband and how your journey to parenthood begun.  

Yeah. So me and my husband, Matt, we've been married for a little over six years now together for about 10. When we met kind of always knew that we wanted to have a family very much family, our families involved in our life and upbringing big families surrounded by lots of friends and just love. And that's just what we wanted to do together and bring to this world. So we got married in 2018.

We were married for a little over two years and we found out that we were pregnant with our first daughter. Giata  and very much wanted pregnancy. I got pregnant pretty much right away, I think after a couple tries, but we were just really, really excited. It was right around this, the holidays, so about November 20 2020, and it was just like something positive.

To look forward to after, you know, a crazy 2019, 2020 with a pandemic and, you know, not being able to be social and with the people we love. And it was just really happy news and it felt like the right time.

Yeah. I'm thinking back to that time. It does. It's funny when you think back and everything kind of just aligns or so you feel like at the moment. So tell me a little bit about your first pregnancy, how that went and, we'll start there.  

So my first pregnancy was very, very normal. You know, found out that we were having a little girl was so excited. You know, I grew up dancing and into makeup and dress up and all those things. So, you know, once we found out that she was a little girl, You know, all the dreams started, you know, forming in my mind of what the future was going to look like.

And I had a very normal pregnancy up until about week to week 28. I went in for an ultrasound and the ultrasound tech went to go look and put an image up on the screen.  And it was it was really dark. It was almost black. Like you couldn't see the baby. 

Okay. 

And You know, I'm looking at her face and you could tell like it was something was going on, but she really couldn't say much,  you know, you know, she's like, have you you know, did your water break or anything?

And I'm like, no not that I know of, like this is my first baby, but no she said, cause your amniotic fluid is really low.  And I was like, okay, like, I don't really know what that means. She was, you know, told me a little bit, but then was like, let me get the doctor. The doctor looked at my scans, came in, and she explained to me that at 20 week, 28 weeks gestation the baby's Kidneys are formed already and the baby is urinating, which makes up a large percent of that amniotic fluid.

So what we came to find is they believed that my baby girl was in renal failure, kidney failure in utero. So  after my ultrasound, I mean, it was just, it was crazy cause everything was so normal up until that point in time. I went, you know, down the hall back to my regular OB who wasn't with me during the scan. 

And as soon as she walked in the room, it was just like, I'm so sorry, Casey.  And I literally had just found out maybe like, I don't know, five, ten minutes before. And it just felt like,  It felt like a death sentence like yes, like there's no up from this that my baby was, wasn't going to make  She went to, you know, she was like, I'm just going to check you just in case, like, if your water did break for some reason, you have to go to the hospital right away. She checked me. That wasn't the case. And, I said, can I have a couple minutes by myself and she left the room and I just started  Wondering like how could this happen? 

Yeah, and she was very much alive inside of me. I'm feeling her kick She has a heartbeat Everything is okay But it's at the same time.

It's so not okay. And I was so far along. I mean, I was in my third trimester. 

Yeah. No one ever thinks that at that point, no one ever is. It's not on your mind that like anything's going to go wrong, especially when, like you said, you're feeling your baby kick. That's like all you're paying, you need to pay attention to, right? Like, Oh, I'm feeling kicks. Like that's. Right. Everything's okay. I can only imagine.  I'm sure it was just, yeah, the rug just like pulled out from you.  

And that was the one appointment that my husband couldn't make it to, like he went with me to every single appointment. We both work. My mom came with me to that appointment. So then after finding that out, you know, I'm at the doctor an hour away from where we live and just calling him and trying to explain,  you know, what I just found out. 

Yeah.

So it was, it was a very scary time. And,  it led to a lot of next steps to figure out why that happened.

At that point, when they're talking about, you know, kidney failure, is there any,  and so, these might be like, ignorant questions, but I just know nothing of this, so, 

oh yeah. Yeah. 

Was there anything said about like, well, it could be this or we could do this or was it just like this is just not going to go well? 

It was said that it could either be a genetic anomaly.  Or there could be a potential blockage which we were hoping for a blockage because a blockage is fixable.

Yeah, okay 

Yeah, 

 Are they able to test for that in utero or is it once babies? Okay. 

Yeah So actually, what I had to do was I think like the very next week I had to go for an MRI  While I was you know, 28 29 weeks pregnant I it was wild, just like having to lay a certain way still because they're not trying to take pictures of me.

They're trying to take pictures of my baby inside of me. So,  I had the MRI done.  Unfortunately, found out it wasn't a blockage.  So, there was nothing that could be surgically done. You know, no fetal surgery or anything. So, they were like, alright, we need to look at genetics.  So, the next step was My husband and I had a full workup done on ourselves.

I'll explain a little bit more about that in a second, but I had to get what's called a pubs procedure done  where they go in through your stomach, through your uterus, and they take a fetal sampling of the blood from the umbilical cord. Cause that's, that's how we were going to find out one baby's blood type and to You know, if it was a genetic anomaly, 

right. 

So that's something like when reflecting back on this, like I feel like I really put out of my mind because during that procedure, like I fully dis, disassociated with what was going on. Like,  I don't know, like an amniocentosis, I think that's more common and people might know what that is,  but this was  very much like that.

But the doctor had to go in multiple times It was literally like I describe it as an ultrasound tech brought in an ultrasound machine I had my maternal fetal medicine doctor to my left machine on my right And i'm watching the screen at first i'm watching the screen. I ended up not being able to 

yeah 

But it looked like a video game of her trying to go in through my body Through my umbilical cord to get blood.

Wow. 

It was intense. Like I literally had to look at the ceiling in that, you know, in that room and my husband's trying to talk to me and comfort me and be there for me and I'm like, I can't talk right now. Like don't talk to me. Like I'm not here. This isn't real. And I literally I, I blocked it out. 

Yeah.

And I, I think she went in two or three times before she was able to get the blood. But when they're asking you in the moment and it's about your baby, it's like, do whatever you got to do. 

Exactly. Yeah. I can relate to that a hundred percent and blocking it out and kind of disassociating is like definitely you're like in survival mode. You're like, that's the only way I can get through this. And yeah, like you said, it's a no brainer. You're like, just do what you got to do. Like you kind of surrender and just kind of like it's okay. Step aside. And I know when I've looked back at it on different parts of my journey too, it's almost like I can see myself just like watching it happen.

Like I'm not there, but I'm like looking down on myself as like things are going on and decisions are being made and I'm responding and saying, you know, of course, like whatever you got to do, but like I'm somewhere else. And that is definitely like just being in survival mode for sure.

A hundred percent. So after that test was done, I think it took like a week or so to get the results back. And we had what's called genetic counseling where we met with a genetic counselor to go over the results  to find out if my husband or I were carriers for what caused this. Or if it was completely de novo, which is like literally just a random mutation of a gene.

Okay. So went through that. We found out that Giotto had what's called Denny's trash syndrome.  And what Denny's trash is, is kidney failure by age two and also a 90 percent risk of kidney cancer. Williams tumor by age 2.  So not only is she diagnosed with this genetic, very rare genetic disorder, less than 200 cases known.

Wow. 

I'm the only, I'm the only one that I've found to this day who found out while baby was in utero. But not only that she has that,  but God willing, she survived. She is a 90 percent risk to get cancer.  I mean, you just. 

Wow. That's insane.  

You hear like stories and see people or, you know, maybe even know like kids that go through this stuff and like all those dreams and plans and everything that we've talked about for her, it just became so sad  and We ended up finding out that it was completely de novo.

It was completely random. Which, you know, had a lot to deal with, whether we could get pregnant naturally or whatnot moving forward, but also if Giada were to survive.  And she would have kids one day, there would be a 50 percent risk that her child would be diagnosed with this syndrome. 

Wow.  Those are a lot of heavy statistics. 

Right? 

Man. 

It's like I talk about it fluently now because I just like studied it so much. Right? But it's like very, I mean, genetic counseling was something I never even like heard of or thought about. 

Yeah, absolutely.   Going through IVF, we still didn't know anything about the genetics side, truthfully, until losing our daughter Maren and trying to figure out kind of what went wrong and diving into all of that.

But like going into it, they were just like, Oh, you're young, like you don't have any family history of this or that. And I just had no idea. It is crazy, like what technology can do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that like, I mean, you said you were the only one, but like that they discovered that in utero is, is wild. It doesn't make it any easier. That's a lot of information to digest, especially while you are pregnant with your baby. But technology is, is pretty crazy.  

It is. And you know, I'm so thankful. You know, I lived near Cleveland at the time, went to the Cleveland clinic, had incredible care. It just helped us in our plan for birthing her like so much more just having a team.

 So one thing we found out also is her blood was the same as my husband's. So, When children are born and develop this syndrome,  she already had it, but normally they develop the syndrome, what happens is you wait till they are a certain age, weight, where they're strong enough, and they actually remove both of their kidneys  to avoid them getting cancer.

Once the kidneys are removed, obviously, they go on a transplant list, they have to be on dialysis until they have a kidney. So, our plan was to have a dialysis machine, after what we assumed would be a long NICU stay, a dialysis machine in our home, where Giada would be hooked up every night while she was sleeping to have her dialysis treatment. 

And once she became a certain weight, age my husband was going to give her his kidney. So that was our plan. And being,  you know, people that think very positively and, you know, I'm a planner, I listened to your podcast,  exactly like you said, like type A, have a plan, have a plan, another plan if that plan doesn't work.

Right. So I was just like, I'm going to start. Speak this into existence. Like this sounds crazy and it sounds like, how's this going to work, but we're going to make it work. And our biggest thing we used to tell each other when I was pregnant with her was, you know what?  The beauty of all of this is she's not going to remember any of it  because once this happens, this procedure happens kids, people, they're on anti rejection meds for their transplant, and that's it.

When you live, you go on to live pretty much a normal life. There's a couple other risk things in there, but that was our plan. We're like, you know what, we're going to have to go through this. And we'll remember it, but she won't, 

right? 

And that literally kept us going throughout the whole process.

Absolutely. I mean, I think we, I've, we have a lot in common cause like you said, I'm type A too. And sometimes it's the only way. And, and knowing that for anyone listening, you know, Being positive and having these plans, obviously  nobody knows how things are going to turn out. There's going to be all different ups and downs in any kind of journey.

I mean, I, I'm sounds like for you and I know this is true for me, having that positivity and speaking like the biggest, best outcomes into existence, whether they pan out that way or not  is a form of like survival. And being positive, it's never going to be a bad thing.

It's going to give positive energy. It's going to help you get through a really hard time. And I just think that's great. I, the first thing that came to mind, mine was for me, it was when my son was in the NICU and, you know, fighting for his life and we just, it was the only way we knew to be is like positive and just kind of like, keep going and just like, Have a plan.

And then, and those plans changed 18 times. But I'm glad that you and your husband came together on that because, you know, in difficult times like these, you learn a lot about your partner.  You're both going to handle things differently and you're going to grieve differently. And so it's really good that you guys like it's came together. in a positive manner and kind of took it head on without knowing how everything is going to go.

 Yeah I remember just like, I think it was one time we had a conversation, we were laying in bed before going to sleep one night, and I was just like,  I know we're positive but I was like, Matt, like, what if she dies?

Like, I'm not gonna be okay. Like, I need you to know that. I'm not gonna be okay if she dies.  And I just had to say it. And I didn't say it often, but he was like, I know, but that's not gonna happen. You know, back with the positivity. Which helped me so much. It really did.  It helped me get through, I mean, I, so, still had weeks left, right?

So it helped me remain calm.  Just do as many like healing things I could do. Like just pay attention to just every little moment that was happening, just her and I and just cherishing it. 

Yeah. It definitely puts a different perspective on every little moment because you just don't know  if it'll be your last or, you know, you want to, and you want to remember it all. I never understood that until losing babies  and then having a baby born early, like every time I would get, I never took it for granted because it puts a  different perspective on things.  Yeah.  

So like one thing too, after finding out and having the diagnosis and coming up with the plan. Like, I'm just Googling this syndrome like crazy. I'm like, is there anybody out there that's been through this? Like, what's popping up? And, like, nothing. It was so hard to find somebody to connect with. I think it was my sister had found something. Like, it wasn't a Facebook group for Denny's Trash at the time, but it was a little girl.

Her name was Piper. And her name is Piper. She's alive and thriving. And My sister sent me the video and it was all about her journey and it was just, she found out after she was born, I think it was close to two years old, but like her dad gave her her kidney and her new kidney and she was thriving and this little like six or seven year old girl.

And it just was, it made me so hopeful. And that was something I connected with. And they live in Florida. I'm located in Ohio. I connected with Piper's mom. It was amazing. I've yet to find anybody near me. 

Yeah. 

 I've connected with some moms out of, out of state, definitely that have dealt with this, but  not many. It's really hard. And I haven't found anybody. Like I said, that found out while they were pregnant. 

Yeah, that's a lot to carry. And just to feel alone in that and not connect on someone who knows exactly what you're going through. I'm glad you did find this mom. Because like you said,  I can't imagine having this information and having to go through your pregnancy and like, try to be prepared as you can.

But also knowing that, like, you have no idea how it's going to, to go. I mean, I, how, how were your feelings or your thoughts during that last part of your pregnancy? Or first I should ask, was there a plan for delivery? Like they didn't want you to go past a certain week or you would have a scheduled induction. What did that look like? 

Right. So with her diagnosis my maternal fetal medicine doctor formed an entire team for us. We had a nephrologist who was a kidney specialist, you know, multiple NICU nurses, herself and other doctors on standby. But basically she was like, we need a scheduled induction and it's gotta be a day where your whole team can be there.

So they ended up scheduling me to be induced on July 5th of 2021. And I ended up birthing Giada on July 6th at 5 49 PM.  It was a very,  I think I was like, so protectant  of like,  Myself and just, I felt like I had a job to do. Yeah. It wasn't like a natural, like I'm having a baby, like embrace it all, feel every emotion.

It was like, I have a job to do. I have to birth her, get her out safely. So the doctors can start taking care of her. Right. So, I mean, I'm a very emotional person, but when I was in labor and, you know, birthing Giada, I wasn't crying. I wasn't screaming. I just was focusing. Yeah. And once she was here I didn't hear her cry.

They took her so fast, touched her to my chest, like literally tapped her and then took her right over to do her APGAR test and just to get started with everything that needed to be done. I was so thankful. One of the nurses took a picture of her with her eyes open right after I had her. So that was amazing.

And that's the picture that I just hold so dear to my heart. I've never shared it on social media or anything. It's just for me and my husband. And I'm so happy that I have that.  So after that happened, she went straight to the NICU. I, I delivered in downtown Cleveland, Cleveland, Cleveland clinic, had an incredible team.

 And after I birthed her, I mean, I wasn't, it was so weird. I think I was in shock. Yeah. I wasn't even crying. I mean, I don't, I just was like waiting for next steps. Like again, very just plan. And I, it like, I felt like that robbed me of so much. Yeah. Because I, I didn't get to experience it the way that any mom should get to experience bringing their son or daughter into the world.

Yeah. So this part, this like times a little blurry to me. So some things they might sound kind of off or out of order, but  I think it was almost like 45 minutes to an hour until we could go see her.  So my husband and I went to, you know, the little room she was in. I think there was five other babies in there. 

you know, this little body hooked up to all these machines and, you know, tape over her mouth and eyes. And just,  it was just, it was really, really hard. You know, nothing can prepare you for that. You know, pictures, stories of others, but when it's your kid  laying there, it's just like,  What is this? Yeah, nothing can prepare you.

That's for sure  and so once we went we got to meet her and you know, Just spend time  They had to move me to like a recovery unit, which was like Inconveniently very far from where she was. Yeah, and I don't like that, but you know It is what it is at that point and I had been up since,  I don't know.

I, I, yeah, I'm sure. But like, but it like didn't phase me. Like, I wasn't tired, right? Like, you're like, just ready for that. I want to be with her. I want to be with her. Yeah. You're just running on like adrenaline. And  I think too, because you kind of Went into it being like, like you said, and I've never heard it put that way, but I, I totally get that.

And I've never thought of  parts of my journey that way, but like being on bedrest with my son Hunter for those eight days, it was like, yeah, I was just like waiting to like, kind of like put me in coach when it's time. Like, this is gonna, you just, and it does, it's really, it's a part of the journey that you have to grieve amongst other things, so many things, but like, you know, that in that moment, yeah, you're, you're already going into it.

Yeah. Not getting that like joyful all in just happy moment, you're like, okay, I got to do my best, like, and it's crazy though, how that like the mama bear and you like, I mean, it starts in utero. I mean, like you are from the moment they were, you were coming up with a plan for your daughter. It's like, Yeah, like the mom instinct in you takes over so I'm not surprised that even though you hadn't slept you're just like, okay, like, let me see her.

Let's do this.  Right. So we get settled in our new room and like as soon as I'm in the bed, I'm like, alright, like, when can I go see her? Yeah.  And they're like, the doctors, you know, Casey, you need to, you really need to sleep. And I'm like, I'm no, I'm like, gonna go see her. Like I, this is the one time where I was like, listen, like I'm doing what I'm going to do.

So I think it was like 11 at night and my husband had, I was like, you know, go to sleep. It's fine. But I was like, I'm going to see her. My sister had been with us. She was in the room for everything with me for the whole journey. I'm so thankful. She was I had her wheel me. That far wheel to where Giada was.

And I'm so happy that I had her do that. And I'm so happy that I didn't go to sleep.  I think I sat with her for probably an hour and a half. I don't know, kind of fuzzy. But, you know, I got to see her little toes move, and her hands.  And just to really be like, Hey Gi, like,  I'm your mommy. And you know, everything's going to be okay.

Like I got you, I've been preparing for you. I'm so ready to have you here with us and just start our lives and just really taking it in  and I'm so happy I did that because that's where I really feel like I connected with her and I was by myself. I was in my wheelchair just sitting there and I just literally just trying to take in everything I could from her just like looking at her hair, again her hands, her toes, her just everything and I'm so happy I did that.

And then the doctor looked at me and he's like, Casey, you have to go to sleep. You have to go to sleep, honey. And something in me was like, okay, like, You know, I have to go to sleep because, you know, my job starts tomorrow. Yeah. I, you know, the doctors are looking over her right now, but like, I'm coming in tomorrow.

It's time to learn. It's time to be a part of this. Like,  I'm not off the clock. Like, I gotta be rested. So I listened, and my sister took me back, and I went to sleep.  And then the next thing that happened was, to this day, the scariest thing that's ever happened in my life. Dude.  I was woken up at I think like four in the morning,  like just in panic by a nurse and just like thrown in a wheelchair,  ran in a wheelchair.

Like,  is my husband behind? I don't know. Like, there's like nothing else going on and they're just rushing me into the realm. And they told me, you know, Casey you know, Matt, like.  She's gone, you know, your daughter has, she's gone.  And I had, I had her blanket on me somehow, I brought it with me, I don't know how, but anyway, I just put her in my arms and I just, you know, told her like, I love you so much, like, it's okay. 

No, go be with Jesus, we'll, we'll meet again one day. 

And she, it just was, it was so fast. Yeah. Again, I'm so happy that I went down and I spent that time with her.  I'm so glad you had that time with her. It's like,  again, I feel like as a mom, like you just knew, you were like, no, I'm gonna go see her. And  I'm so glad you had that to take her all in. Like you said, looking at her toes and just everything, just really  having that moment, just you and her.

So was your,  was your husband, did he. Rushed to the room. He was behind you. I mean, what a whirlwind. I don't even know. I'm sure it just felt like unreal.  Yeah, he was behind me the whole time and I didn't notice until I kind of looked up and he was having Like a complete panic attack.  Yeah. It was, it was a very vulnerable, emotional, just  we, this wasn't gonna happen.

We didn't talk about this, we weren't gonna let anybody else talk about this. Like this was gonna be a different way and it just wasn't. Yeah. And it took me a long time to come to peace with that,  but, I truly believe that  watching her suffer  and,  you know, my daughter now, like when she gets hurt or has to go to the hospital or she had stitches recently, I mean, I couldn't even bear it.

And I'm just like, that would have been our life. She would have been, that would have been like her every day. Yeah. And that makes me so sad to think about. And I just, you know,  I truly believe that, you know, she was put in my life and my husband's life for a reason, and we are her parents for a reason because I've learned so much from her.

Yeah. But  I'm so happy she's at peace.  Absolutely. I think it's,  I think every baby, no matter how  long they're with us or short they definitely have a grand purpose. I, I think that of my daughters as well, you know, I've changed and I, I know your daughter's changed you and  going through that experience.

Also is only I know made you a stronger mom and just a  total perspective shift of motherhood for sure  it's  You can never be prepared for that moment. Like we've said no matter how many plans you have  But I I hope you feel good knowing that you did everything  That you could for her and you made I mean, I always think of it as like If you can be positive like you are and put all these vibes and just tell yourself that it's going to go a certain way,  you're never going to have any regrets because you just wished all the positivity and good vibes onto your daughter, knowing that you, at the end of the day, you don't have control, you know?

I, It's, it's a lot to come to grips with when you think about it and go back. And it is something that you have to come to terms with and be at peace with. So I'm glad that you have gotten there. It took me a long time to get there. It's, it's a lot. No parents should ever have to go through something like that.

It's hard to explain if you've never been in a situation like that. But I mean,  in that moment when you were rushed, I'm sure it was just Obviously like a blur being woken up and just like wheeled there. I, obviously the doctors, was there any inclination of like it doesn't sound like there was any kind of warning of like, you know, anything going, going south. 

Right. No, just after, after everything happened, they came in and explained to us that She had passed from not only kidney failure, but acidosis, there was acid in her blood. So that was the reason that she had passed away.  But yeah, I just,  she really, she really prepared me just. For anything in life.

I truly feel like in no matter what situation, like anything could happen to me and I can handle it. Like she's my superpower. That's how I describe it. Like you, you could say the rudest thing to me. You could hurt me. You could, it doesn't matter. Like I've been through it, so nothing is ever going to compare.

So, I mean, truly a different perspective. Like you said on life and on it's truly a gift because I think about like,  Just like who I was before her, and not that it was  I don't know, like bad or anything, just was so different and I'm so much prouder of the person I am today because of what I've learned from her. 

Absolutely. I mean, what a,  it is interesting when, when you've experienced like the worst thing that you can ever go through especially as a first time mom, I mean, I had a really hard time with that. You know,  losing a baby in your first pregnancy, it's not easier or harder one way or the other, whether it's your first or second, but there is something to be said when it's your first time being, you're taking it all in, like you,  so much is thrown at you and then to have the loss on top of it.

I mean, I think it just, it really pushes you down to the ground even more when you're just like, have that carpet pulled out from under you. And like you said, I. I agree. It is a superpower. I've never thought of it like that, but it truly is because  I feel too, I can do anything at this point. I'm like, I've been through a lot and I've, you know, we've had to navigate so many different feelings and emotions and pull ourselves up and It is a superpower that I'm grateful to have as well.

And I love that you explained it that way. I mean, what a gift our daughters gave us going forward in life where, you know, we're, we're different people now.  Yeah. And you just like me listening to your story, like  they carried you through that. They equipped you with those very beginning onset of skills that unfortunately you had to develop, but you did.

And they were, they were kind of the foundation of that. And that's, that's what I really look at too with GE. I'm going to go through this next part a little quickly. It wasn't quick at all. It took a lot, it took a lot of time. But one thing that I wanted to do is I wanted to get pregnant right away.

Yeah. The doctor told me, you know, you should wait this time, this amount of time. I said, all right, like down to the date. I'm like, I'm trying to get pregnant again. I'm still a planner, but I have this beautiful nursery.  I have had a baby shower. I had all these things, like  my home is missing my daughter, but my home is missing.

I need to have my baby.  So I got, I got pregnant right away. Thank God. With my daughter now, Sydney, who is about two and a half years old. And man, did that save me. Yeah.  It wasn't. It was, it was a very normal pregnancy. It was treated as high risk due to me having anxiety and just wanting, you know, extra eyes on it. 

But like I said, like how I was birthing Giada when I was pregnant with Sydney. I wasn't the normal Casey that, you know, would be pregnant one day. I was very  not connected. I'm very excited.  When I found out we were having another little girl, I was like, Oh my gosh. Like, this is amazing. Yeah. Cause again, I had the nursery.

I had the clues. I was like, this just is perfect. Like, this is Giada doing this for our family. Very normal pregnancy was said.  I had her in June of 2022, so literally like a little bit under a year after I had Giada. And I mean, she is just amazing. And she has healed me in so many ways that I never knew imaginable.

And,  I mean, when I was pregnant with her and even early on having Cindy when she was real little, like, I was still feeling really down. Yeah, of course.  I just,  I didn't really look into therapy. I'll let you know until after I had Sydney because I was so focused on getting pregnant again that I didn't take care of myself.

I didn't think about my mental health.  I was going to ask if you thought you dealt with your grief before getting pregnant again, or if it came later.  No it came later because, you know, I'm like, well, I'm gonna have another baby and this is going to help so much. Like this is going to be the solution.

And it very much was a big part of the solution, but  I started getting really triggered when Sydney was little. And this sounds like really dark, but just straight up honest, I would be rocking her to sleep at night and  she looks so much like Gianna. Yeah. And all I ever really saw IG was pictures of her. 

Sleeping. Right.  So I would be rocking Sydney to sleep at night and looking at her with her eyes closed and it looked like I was looking  at my baby who was no longer alive and that really started to mess with me. I'd be going in her nursery. Putting my hand through her crib just make sure she was breathing like multiple times in front of her mouth  You know like tapping like just making sure that she was okay And that's when I finally decided that I needed to go to therapy because I was like, I can't keep doing this This isn't healthy and then I was just having really bad nightmares.

Yeah, and it's when I looked into what's called EMDR therapy  and how I found out about this is You  Rewind, when I was pregnant, or no, sorry, before I was pregnant with Sydney, again, looking for that connection, like lost moms infant loss, neonatal loss,  I connected with and I believe I found your Instagram through Christina Perry.

Yeah. Yeah. She was on a podcast and she's talking about her daughter, Rosie, and just sharing her story of Rosie, and. I used to listen to her over and over sharing that story and I would cry with her like she was my friend. Yeah. I mean, it got to the point where I was like,  Oh my goodness. It just was like, I feel so connected with this person and her language and just every word she said.

I'm like, that's what I haven't thought I wanted to say, but that's how you say it. Yeah. And she brought up. EMDR, which is, I have it written down because I always mess it up, it's eye movement desensitization reprocessing.  So, have you ever heard of that? No. So when you mentioned it to me the first time, I think in an email, I was like, I, I've heard of it, but I, I was not, I did not know all that it is.

So no, this is new for me. I just, with a quick Google search, I was like, Whoa, that would have been helpful.  And well, I'm really much to, like we said, somebody who's a planner. I like to be in control. Yeah. I have a hard, like I've never, like people have been like, have you tried to meditate? I can't meditation.

I can't let myself go there. My mind is so busy all the time that I'm just like, that would never work for me. What do you mean? So I brought up this therapy to my therapist and she's like, yeah, for sure. Like, let's try it.  My biggest thing I wanted to do was my time with Giada was getting really fuzzy.  I was having hard times thinking about when things happened, you know, being with her memories just, and that was really starting to scare me.

I'm like, I need to remember like this, this was such a short amount of time.  I need to relive it,  which is that that's what I did.  And basically EMDR is you have like vibrating devices in your hand. It involves vibrations and clicks and you kind of just close your eyes. The therapist really doesn't say much, but guide you to like, well, then what happened and what happened next?

And I literally relived what I just explained to you earlier on.  And just went through every motion, every emotion too. Yeah. And It just made it all so much clearer for me.  And then I went home and I wrote it all down  and I'm so happy that I did that. And, you know, I took the chance and I put in the work to let myself go and it was easier than I ever thought it would be.

I mean, it was definitely G like doing it for me, but I was like, this is so not me. And so something that wouldn't work for me, but it worked.  And I think I did like three or four sessions. It wasn't all like in one hour. But I truly believed it helped me so much. So, and with every session, are you going through the same thing? 

We're picking up. Yes. We're picking up where I left off in the prior session. Yeah. And doing the same process with the devices and the guide and all of that. But I don't know. It was really healing. Yeah. It was just the beginning of my healing and really made me start to look at things differently.

And I don't know. I just really, I applaud it, and if anybody is interested, I say try it because you never know, and it really helped me. Yeah, I'm really interested in that because kind of like grief, you know, the memories of traumatic experiences, even the, even though they're beautiful, like, because I've had a hard time too, you know,  holding, you know, your daughter, knowing that they're no longer with you. 

But then all their trauma that like surrounds that the appointments and the day you, you lost your child and just all these things I know for me, I mean, I kind of, I try to pick and choose my memories and or I have in the past tried to pick and choose my memories and like kind of push everything down, but it's just like grief.

You can distract yourself. You can think you're through because I've thought I've been like, quote, unquote, over it.  Many times and then something else will happen in my life. Yeah, whether it's rocking my daughter to sleep or  Being in a hospital or like there's always these triggers and you know moments come back to me so I can see how it would be very helpful  To really just kind of like put yourself in that space.

I mean, it's really brave to do it because it's not  Like you said, it's so, I mean, that's amazing and I'm sure it was your daughter just helping bring that out of you because it's not easy to do to put yourself back in that timeline and just really work through it. But that's, that's really interesting.

And I, yeah, I would encourage anyone listening. If it sounds like you're remotely interested, go for it, because I think when you told me what this was, I was like, wow, that would have been really helpful. I, the very first time I even remotely talked about, or. Thought about my journey from start to finish was the very first episode of the show.

And yeah, I remember feeling exhausted, like after recording that. And I was like, and it was just me. I mean, I barely knew what I was doing with podcasting a couple years ago. And like, it was just literally me in like my weird office by myself, like with a mic, it was super late at night. And I was just like, Oh my God, I got to get this off my chest.

I got to get it out. But yeah, You know, three hours later, I don't know, or however long it was, but it felt so good. And like every so often I'll go back and listen to it because kind of like how you wrote it down. Like, I'm glad I have. These memories, whether they're hard, I mean, even though they're hard, a lot of it, I'm glad I have them because that's, those are my daughter's stories.

You know, even though they were traumatic and they were very sad and I only got short little time with them It feels good to know that you have those memories because that's, that's their story. Because that's the sad thing too, is that time goes on, you know, you want to like, hold on to that and you want to make sure that they are always, you know, thought of and talked about yeah, that's really interesting, that's really cool that you did that and therapy too, I was, I was slow to therapy and I can't say enough good things about, you know, Therapy and having someone to talk through because especially like when you do become a mom, you know, with that rainbow baby, it's like, you want to be your best self for that. 

And I think that's usually what like kind of kicks it into gear because I did not deal with anything I went through. Honestly, until  I don't even know, I wait way later after I already had two kids on earth and after our third loss, because I just kept going, but I realized I was there for them. Like if I don't like work through this. 

So that's, that's good that you, that you went that route.  And it, it really like opened, I feel like doing EMDR and going to therapy, it really like opened my heart and I, and I, in my mind  and then like good things started happening. I started getting signs. That like I longed for and I thought I needed so bad in certain moments But like they started coming and it really just made me kind of adjust like  I don't know my energy a little bit Being more spiritual a little bit but because I lived for those signs.

Yeah, there's a sign that I want to share with you  My daughter Sydney ever since I can remember  She was always just really, from like three months and up, really into like Finding Nemo, Finding Dory. Like, loved when we had the movies on, we had little Finding Dory toys for her. Like this fish she lit up when she saw this fish.

And we didn't get it, but we like, just every day, I've probably seen Finding Dory like 500 times. But One night, I think Sid was probably, I don't know, seven months old ish. I was just having a really hard night and going through my pictures, got to my pictures of me and my husband holding GE in the hospital,  and I had never looked before at anything else in the picture except her face.

Oh my gosh. 

And for the first time ever, I looked behind us on the curtain, and there's a picture of Dory on the curtain. 

Oh my gosh.

In the picture with us, and I was just like, wait. And I like, literally like, was like, okay, it's like kind of late at night, am I sleeping? Like, what is going on? And I was like, that's the finish.

I'm like, Dory's like behind us.  And my husband had been sleeping in the other room. He was sick. And I ran in, I'm like, Matt, look at this. Like, is it like, he's like, holy.  I'm like, and seeing that fish on that blind. Oh my goodness. Like it literally just, it changed my life. Yeah. It was amazing, like, just a chilling, just happy, just, I can't, I'm telling everybody about this wake up story and it was just so, what an amazing feeling that I feel that like connection between both of your daughters, like that she is a part of it.

But you're right. I don't think  had you not, you know, done the therapy and everything, like, I don't know if your heart and mind would have been open to even taking that in, you know, and receiving that. So. It is amazing. And for anyone listening who is unfortunately had to experience a loss as well, you know, being, healing yourself is going to open your heart to these kinds of experiences.

And it's going to sound weird to say at first for someone who's at the beginning of their, I'll say lost journey. But you will find joy in your,  you know, your baby's story and their lives because they were here, whether it was for a short time or not. And it is, it is, it's really healing when you can get to that point and know that they're always with you. 

It really is. And you know me, like I'm Googling and like researching like  blue tang fish and then I started like thinking about the movie and I'm like the movie Finding Dory, if you have ever seen it, is about Dory's search across the ocean to be reunited with her parents again. And I'm just like, this is just,  this, there is purpose in what happened.

And I,  I, that's how I live my life. I focus on that purpose and I live my life happy. And I, you know,  I know nothing was my fault. I know I, I am her mother, even though she's not here with us today, but again, she changed my life. Yeah. And  she was my first loss. I recently lost my son, Jacob, who I found out I was pregnant with a June of this year, 2024. 

I miscarried at 17 weeks unexpectedly inconclusively. And, you know, it was really, it was really hard for me. And when that first happened.  I started to feel really low again, like really low, but like you said, like I have a daughter, like I have to take care of myself. I have to be here for her. I have to make sure my mental health is in check because she doesn't deserve anything other than that.

Yeah. So that's really what has helped me in these last couple months. Keep going and just like, again, build on that skill level and like everything like, okay, like that. I went through with Giada,  weird enough to say I'm able to handle this. I shouldn't have to, and I'm devastated  and it's horrible. And we're supposed to have a little boy arriving in February. 

But I'm going to handle this and I'm going to do it for him and I'm going to do it for J because I have Sydney here who needs me and I need to give her the best life I can and be as present in her life as I can. So I've just learned so many lessons from all of it. And I just, I really try to keep that in the forefront of my mind because  I don't know what else to do.

Like what else is there? Like, that's just how you, you get, you get through it. Yeah, but you're, but not only are you getting through it, but you are being very present. And I think you're, you know, your daughter's purpose was so grand. I mean, not only did you keep going, well, actually, when you talked about finding Dory and finding Nemo, the first thing that popped in my head, cause this phrase was, In our heads through the NICU is like, just keep swimming.

Just keep swimming. Oh my gosh, the tattoo. Oh my gosh. That's perfect. Okay. Cause that's all I was thinking about. I'm like, they do that. She was just letting you know, like, just, you got this, like, keep going. You got this. And then of course, you know, Your daughter, Sydney, the rainbow baby, I mean, she's going to help you navigate  the months to come.

I mean, your loss is still very new and you know, when the due date comes and you know how it is, all about the holidays and just all of the things that are going to weigh your heart down,  you're going to be watching her go through it all. And she's going to help pull you back up, which is just incredible.

And like we said, every, every baby, whether with us or not has a purpose. And I feel the same way every single Baby of mine has had a grand purpose. I like to think that, you know, my twins gave me the hope of being pregnant, you know, after years of infertility, they, we got pregnant and I was able to experience that Hunter.

You know, we did IVF and even though he was born early, he gave us, he still gives us hope that that child is just, he always keeps us going  because he's just like, he just beat so many odds. But he you know, gave us hope that  we, we could get pregnant and we could bring a baby earth side. And then Noah came in like a whirlwind for the reason we named him Noah's because I really feel like he just.

You know, we're religious too. And I just feel like he, he carried us to the next side. I'm like, we did it. We got to the next side. Was never prepared to lose our daughter, Maren. That came out of nowhere, but I like to think her purpose, she healed me a lot. And the fact that she was the only baby that we conceived on our own, like, I was like, With after years of infertility and I just think about like she healed me because she made me feel not broken.

Like, I was like, wow, like we did that on our own. We got pregnant and, you know, those first 20 weeks. I mean, it was the easiest, healthiest pregnancy I've ever had until, until it wasn't and that was out of our hands. But I think that's always been her purpose and just having a glimpse of like,  you know, That like you kind of get like you said, like you with your daughter and then learning you're having another daughter.

I mean, learning about that Maren was a girl, we were just like,  I couldn't shake that. I couldn't shake it. And so that's when we decided to test our embryos and it was because of Maren that we even decided to keep, just keep going. I mean, like we have been shown hope and grace every step along the way and we've been knocked down and we came back up and like at this point, you know, holding my daughter Lorelei after like a journey I'd never thought I'd be on.

And I'm like,  I don't think I could have done that had I not known that I was having a daughter, had the confidence of conceiving on our own and just like knowing that like, none of these, none of this was the plan, but it's all somehow I look back now and I'm like over the last 10 years, I'm like,  it was always the plan.

It wasn't my plan, but it was always the plan. And you know, the second that you can kind of  let that go and just know that you will be okay regardless of where, you know, the journey takes you. We're never gonna stop being planners. That's like who that's who we are, right? We're type a we're gonna I still like control But there's always I do have a different perspective now after so many years of things not a going according to my plan  And because of these experiences, yeah, it's maybe a better mom I mean, there's nothing I mean, you know your daughter's two two and a half you said I mean like  We can plan all we want for our kids for just I'm just talking on a very minimal level like for the day Right, and it's never gonna go the way it's supposed to go  So it's really taught me just to be  More fluid with my plans and it's allowed me to be a better mom I think because of these experiences and I'm sure you feel the same 100 percent just being more present in the moment and one thing that when listening to your story that I really, that really stood out to me is you said that something about there being power and pause in the pause.

And it's so I feel so different this time around. I'm not trying to get pregnant right away. Yeah. I'm taking that pause. I'm making sure I'm okay. My mental health.  Again, I gotta be there for my daughter, I have a little, a little one at home to take care of and be present for, so when you said having you know, power in the paws, like that's 100 percent like what I'm feeling and living right now, and you know, once I feel okay, like I can't wait to try again, and God willing, I have another baby, but that, it's so powerful though too to just, you know, You know, you have to take care of yourself because you could, you could have another baby and again, put it on the back burner like I did the first time and like how you kind of said you didn't deal with it right away.

And that's just life. That's how it's going to be sometimes and now we're, you know, thank God we're reflecting on it now. Right. Those years were so hard. Yeah. And I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to do that. I want to use the skills I have. I want to take the time. I want to heal. So I can minimize the pain as much as I can.

Yeah. Because we don't deser we don't deserve that. Yeah. Like, just because we handled it and we went through it doesn't, I always say, doesn't mean we should have had to. Right. I mean, it's a tragedy. It's a trauma we'll have forever. And just like one message, like, I like to share with everyone. Is like just put put in the work, you know If you are hesitant and you are nervous Or it seems like something's not going to work for you try it Because when you put in the work, I will tell you My happiness outweighs my sadness so much because I put in that work and I continue to So it just it's so worth it to take care of yourself I agree.

You can have all these hopes and goals and dreams for your family, but if you're not okay and you don't prioritize yourself in every way you can,  then you're not going to be your happiest or best self, and I just, I can't say that enough. It's helped me so much. Yeah. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I mean, that's great advice.

And yeah. For any mom out there. I mean, even if you haven't experienced a loss, being your best self through motherhood is only going to taking care of yourself. I should say every mom puts themselves on the back burner at one, you know, one point or another some for years, some for, you know, through the seasons.

But. Every time you can prioritize your own health, mental health, physical health you're only going to be the best version of yourself, best for best mom for your kids and all of those things. And yes, power in the pause. When I learned that, I forget who I learned it from, but I always share that because it almost goes against, like, it does not feel natural, especially when your family's not complete and you, and you want to grow your family and you want to, you know, just get through your grief and just move on to the next step.

For me, it was like through 2020 and COVID, and while that was like a crazy time, I think a lot of people experienced, you know, the power and the pause that was kind of forced on us all because we just kind of had to stop and appreciate the little things.

And for me, it gave me the time to just like, Enjoy my family. The boys were super little and like, it was the first time ever. We were not in that year. We were not considering trying to get pregnant again and trying to like, keep growing our family. We had family goals, but with everything that had happened, you know, it all, it all switched and I had never felt so good physically and mentally knowing that, like,  this is a good thing that I, that we are pausing in this season because to just keep going, you know, it feels like I'm.

Slacking or like not going after my dreams, but like, it could not be the opposite, you know, taking time to really reflect on what we've been through and enjoy what we have. Not only made me feel better about myself, but it made our marriage stronger. I feel like I was more present for our sons in a really hard time of like, you know, COVID craziness. 

And so anyone listening, I'm glad you brought that up because finding power in the pause can be a really helpful tool, especially when you're navigating. A loss because definitely grief is never going to go away. It's just something you learn to live with. And so pushing it down and not dealing with it, it's, it's always, it's going to come back up.

It might be years later. It might be months later, but there's no like skipping steps. You have to really just go through it. And. And deal with it, handle it, work through it, I guess. Yeah. And you know, I really leaned into my partner. I have to like shout out my husband. Like we've, again, it's made our marriage so much stronger, so much more connected in ways that we didn't even know we were.

Disconnected maybe I mean just we've grown so much together through this and I'm so thankful To have him in his support because I couldn't do it without him. I just know I couldn't yeah And he was a major part of this and you know If you are looking to heal in other ways to that isn't therapy.

I've tried other things I actually started a little business a couple years ago. I'm in memory of Giada. It's called Halo City  Bracelets. I've since stopped just cause life's been busy with city,  but I helped raise every bracelet I sold. I donated a portion of the profits to different charities every month, which that's really, that really helped heal my soul, my mind, you know, have kept my hands busy.

It was just a different way to have that alone coping time. And then one thing too, that I do every year, and we just had our second annual golf outing. And memory of G and now also of Jake is I raised money and put on an outing for families who are dealing with Denny's rash syndrome, kidney cancer.

And I will tell you, it is very hard to find families that need that, that are, are dealing with those, you know, two things. So if anybody's out there listening or know somebody  and even if it's unrelated But just need some help or my help I would love for you to connect with me Because it's something that I really work hard for and I put my heart and soul in so I just want to you know It's very important to me.

So if you know anybody out there and you too that needs help like I'm happy to  You know, have a golf outing and their memory and raise money to hope, hopefully make whatever they're going through a little bit easier. Yeah, that's amazing. And I'll be sure to like include some sort of contact info for you.

So anybody listening can reach out to you for support because there's nothing more valuable than connecting with someone who knows even an ounce of what. You're going through so thank you for offering that up. And that's so cool that you have done these different things in honor of your daughter.

And now your son it's, it's amazing. It's, it's keeping their memory alive. It's helping others and it's healing you in the process. So that's really great. That's amazing. Thank you. And thanks so much for sharing your story too. I mean, Literally, like listening to everything that, you know, you've been through and that you have now, it, it really restores hope and strength. And I mean, you, you truly inspire me. So thanks so much. 

Well, I'm glad you reached out because it's, it's very brave of you to share your story. I know it's a very vulnerable thing to do and sharing it publicly, but I mean, I'm glad you found my story and I'm, I'm hoping that others listening to this episode can feel the same kind of comfort and just knowing that they're not alone and knowing that  every story is different.

Like you said, the disease is very rare. But it happens. And I know that there are people out there who maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but like we'll find this episode and be able to connect with somebody. And so the more we can talk about all these things, as you know, that's the whole point of the podcast.

I want to have conversations that aren't being talked about enough. It does not matter how rare the situation is. There's always somebody else out there. And so it's really important to me and that's part of my mission is just to really provide this space to educate people. Let others tell their stories, not only to heal for themselves to honor their babies, but to educate others.

So nobody feels alone. So thank you so much for coming on and being with me on this episode.  Yes, of course. It was my pleasure and an honor 

 before we go. I think we've kind of covered your whole story. And I again, thank you so much for sharing. You've given so much advice already, but if there is there one piece of advice that you would leave people with, whether it's someone navigating a diagnosis or pregnancy after loss any piece of advice that you could share for listeners.

I'd say dive in and take advantage of those resources and those moms who are out there because I feel like early on, I felt really, really, really alone, like scary alone.  And  if I would have just, again, kind of opened my heart and mind and been vulnerable and sharing a little sooner,  I don't know. I just wonder, I wonder if that would have taken away some of my pain.

So just like take the chance because. You know, people care about you, whether they know you or they don't know you. You know, if I ever get a message or a question about something that happened to me along my journey,  I mean, it's like I get this like breath of fresh air, like, oh my gosh, like, what I've been through again, here's another way that I can possibly help or share.

Yeah. So just, you know, and it's hard, but people care. They really do.  Again, it's putting in the work and Is so worth it. Yeah, absolutely. That's great advice. And the way you describe things, there's been like three things in this episode where I'm like, I never thought about it like that, but that's exactly how I feel it is.

It does feel like a breath of fresh air when you can connect with somebody else and help them through something that you know is a really hard thing that they've, they're going through because you know it from your own personal experiences. So yeah, for anybody listening, regardless of the situation that you're in, whether it's infertility or loss or.

a diagnosis of sorts. You'll be surprised the second you start opening up about it. You will find people that are going to genuinely care about what you're going through and be there for you. So  absolutely. And if you're someone, if you're someone who hasn't experienced a loss, just know, and I don't know if this is for everybody, but I probably am thinking could speak.

For you too. When somebody asks you about your child, who's no longer with us and calls them by name, man, it just makes them feel so relevant and real to not only your life, but that person's life. And I honestly, like, those are some of my best moments of my days. They're very rare. Yeah. But when it happens, it's like, I could be having the worst day and it turns my entire week around because while somebody asked me about Chiata.

Yeah. Absolutely. Just, just hearing their names for sure. I mean,  it, it reminds you that it wasn't just a dream. Like they were here, they have purpose, they are still your children. And I know a lot of people, again, who haven't experienced a loss or it, you know, people close to you. I experienced this, you know, they love you, even though they love you so much, like they're still going to be afraid to talk about it and they're still going to be afraid.

To make you upset or, and even if you do get upset, like there's been times where like, yeah, it makes me teary eyed to like talk about my girls, but like that doesn't, I still feel so much joy when someone like says something about my daughters or says their name. That's great advice for anybody listening because man, it goes such a long way.

It does. I have one last thing. Yes, please.  I used to feel so uncomfortable when people would tell me like how strong I was or they don't know how I get through it or this or that. But you know what? Like in the last like six months, like if you are somebody who has experienced this, like embrace that strength, you are strong.

I am strong. You are strong. And Like, that is one of my  best qualities. I mean, and I don't care, like, I'm not trying to flex or anything, however you But you should. But like, no, but like, it is so relevant, and there's so much meaning in that. And like, embrace it. You know, don't cover it up, hide it. Like, I just started, like, if somebody tells me that, I, my response now is, I know.

I mean, it just, it's the truth for anybody that has been through this because you know, nobody should ever have to lose a child. And if you go on living, I mean, you are  a master of this earth. I feel. Yeah. Okay. That is advice that I needed to hear because I'm still not good at that. And I do. I, People always say like, Oh, you're so strong.

You're the strongest mom I know. And like, I used to feel like, well, I didn't really have a fricking choice. Like I didn't,  like, it was horrible. I didn't, what would you do? Kind of thing. Like I used to be so like salty about that and I've since embraced it. And I'm like, yeah, I've, the more I've like revisited my story and stuff.

I'm like, man, yeah, I am strong. I have, but I still don't respond. I'm like, I'm like, Oh, okay. But I like that. I need to start doing that. You're like, you're right. I am. I am. I'm strong. Cause it's, I mean, it's definitely a little awkward. And then I'm somebody who like rolls off a compliment like that, like, Oh, stop.

Like, no, I'm like, you know, if you were in a situation like this, you would be doing what I'm doing too. Like, no.  I am strong and I'll own it. Absolutely. I love that. What a way. That is the perfect place to end right there. Everyone hear that if you're strong, cause you are own it. And I'm going to start doing, that's going to be my new year resolution thing.

Cause I'm going to have to just start accepting that because years later, I still kind of brush it off. Like, I mean, I don't know. I just did what everybody would do.  Well, thank you so much. Casey. It's. It's been so great connecting with you and I'm glad that we were put in touch and we will stay in touch too because I just think we are like on the same wavelength, different experiences, but so many things in common especially how we honor our babies and how we think about things going forward.

So thank you. I'm so glad to know you now and it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast. Thank you so much.

Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. I am always so inspired by all of the women who join me on this podcast to share their journeys to motherhood.  Just when I think that I've heard it all and I think that I know the ins and outs of all the different things that can be hurdles in a journey to motherhood and infertility and loss. I'm always humbled by hearing something new and I'm always learning about other people's situations, which I think, especially this time of year is really important. I think it's important to have perspective. I think it's important to know other people's stories because it can allow us to reflect on our own lives. It can educate us on topics that we're not familiar about.

And most importantly, I think it just helps with empathy towards others. You just never know what somebody is going through.

Had you not known Casey's story, you might just see her and her cute little family of three, just living their beautiful life, without knowing the struggles  they've been through to get there and the struggles to follow.  You just never know what somebody's going through and I'm so grateful to her for joining us on the podcast today to share her experiences.

I hope it helps somebody out there not feel alone in their loss or a diagnosis they might be experiencing. Um, no matter how rare something is, there's always somebody out there that can connect with you on some level. So, Feel free to reach out to me and of course, feel free to reach out to Casey.

She's here. She wants to provide the support that she felt like she didn't necessarily have. And that's what it's all about here on the motherhood intended podcast. We are connecting on things that don't get talked about enough. So nobody has to go through these things alone.

If you heard this episode and are feeling inspired to share your own personal journey,  all kinds of stories are welcome on the podcast.  We've talked about everything from gender disappointment to IVF to, uh, multiples, high risk pregnancies, um, adoption is something I would really, really love to cover.

So if you are in the process of adopting or if you have adopted children or know somebody who would love to share their story, please reach out to me because this topic is very important to me. And,  it's something that I have not. Had the privilege of covering yet on this podcast. We've talked about it, we've touched on it, but, um, the focus has primarily been on loss, infertility, parenting, surrogacy, of course.

 But adoption is something that I really want to highlight because it is a wonderful family building option. And for a lot of people, it's the best option. So if anyone has a story to share or an expert in the field,  please reach out to me. You can email me at hello at motherhood intended.

com. Send me a DM, all the things, like I mentioned, this is the last episode of the season, but I am super excited to come back in 2025 with all new content. I have so many awesome guests. That I have recorded with, and I can't wait for you to hear our conversations. Um, and like I mentioned, we've got a lot of fun stuff coming in the new year, including events, memberships, book club, so many fun things.

That being said with so much in the works, I would love some help on some of these projects, whether it's helping out in our community, Facebook group, helping source guests. Helping me with the nonprofit that is in the works, event planning, social media. There are so many things that go into motherhood intended.

And truthfully, I love doing like 95 percent of it, but I'm only one person. And I'm also  a stay at home mom . So that being said, I would, I would love to bring some people onto the team.  Like Casey mentioned, you know, she has different. And a lot of moms I've talked to, every, a lot of moms have different initiatives that they're working on, whether it's a small business or a charity event or something that they do to honor the babies that they've lost.

For women who are in the thick of infertility and treatments and everything, if you're looking for something to kind of channel. Your energy and put your positive energy at that.  This could be a good distraction. Helping others has always been really gratifying for me.

And, just being part of a community has always helped me through really hard times. So if you're not a mom yet, and you're just wanting to get more involved with everything that is motherhood intended, I would love to chat with you, because I too get lonely out here in the podcast abyss, and I'm looking to build a team in 2025 of people who are just looking to give back, you know, looking to get involved, meet other women, Maybe honor your babies.

We're going to be doing big things in this next year, but it's gonna, it's going to take a village as they say. So message me if you're interested. All right, friends, that's all I have for you today. All I have for you this year. It has been an amazing year. I am so blessed to be able to put my voice out into the world and so grateful for you all listening every week, and tuning in because it has brought me back to life through a decade of losing myself and Refinding myself and picking myself back up and it feels really, really good to be on the other side of things.

So I can't wait to channel all of this energy into the coming years to provide helpful content and resources and community for you. If you haven't yet, be sure to click that follow button on the podcast. So any new episodes will pop up. There is a chance that I'll be dropping a bonus episode or two in the next month.

I'm hoping to record an episode with my son, Noah. Every year is kind of like a tradition. I record with the boys around their birthday and you know, November came and went, um, but he is jonesing to get back on the podcast. So I'm hoping to record with him over his winter break.  Follow the show. So you don't miss a thing. And I will talk to you again soon. Bye for now.