Holding the Mother: How One Mom Found Healing After Her Son’s Heart Journey

When motherhood takes an unexpected turn, where do you find the strength to keep going?

In this emotional and powerful episode, host Jacqueline Baird sits down with Kath Hansen—a Brisbane mom of four, founder of the baby brand Bubba Cloud, and host of The Modern Mother Podcast. Kath opens up about her youngest son Odin’s rare congenital heart condition, months spent in the NICU, and the raw reality of parenting through trauma.

Together, Jacqueline and Kath explore what it means to mother through uncertainty, navigate grief, balance family life after medical challenges, and rediscover yourself amid the chaos. Their shared experiences of NICU life and loss offer comfort, courage, and community to any mom who’s ever felt alone in her journey.

💛 In this episode, you’ll hear:

• How Kath learned her son had a rare heart condition during pregnancy
• The emotional toll of months spent in the hospital and multiple surgeries
• The impact of trauma on motherhood and identity
• Why “holding the mother” is as vital as caring for the baby
• How Kath channels her experience into purpose through Bubba Cloud and The Modern Mother Podcast

✨ Connect with Kath:

• @bubbacloud
• @_kathhansen
• @themodernmother.pod

🌻 Join Your Fertility Village:
A safe, supportive community for women navigating infertility, pregnancy, and motherhood after loss. Become a Founding Member for just $7/month and lock in that price for life: Join here!

🎧 Follow Motherhood Intended:
@motherhood_intended

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Intentions
• 3:38 Meet Kath Hansen
• 6:56 The 20-Week Scan Missed And Shock
• 12:22 Three Unthinkable Options
• 18:55 Choosing Birth And Moving For Care
• 25:48 Genetic Finding: 22q Deletion
• 31:20 C-Section Day And Immediate Care
• 38:18 NEC Scare And Delayed Surgery
• 44:12 First Cardiac Procedure Details
• 50:52 Home Passes, Readmissions, Open Heart
• 57:10 Mom Guilt, Survival Mode, And Support
• 1:03:48 Burnout After The First Birthday
• 1:09:24 Friendship Shifts And Showing Up

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Are you tired of scrolling your feed only to see the highlight reel version of motherhood? If so, then you're in the right place. Welcome to the Motherhood Intended podcast. I'm your host, Jacqueline Baird, and I'm a passionate mom here to support women like you in their unique journeys to and through motherhood. I have been through it all. We're gonna be talking about things like trying to conceive, infertility, IVF, surrogacy, mom life, and more. It's time to get real about what it takes to be a mom and come together in the fact that things don't always go as planned. So here we go. Hey friends, welcome back to Motherhood Intended. I'm your host, Jaclyn Baird, and as always, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for hitting play on the episode. I hope this moment is finding you in a time of peace. Hopefully, a moment to yourself, whether you're on your commute or holding laundry or whatever you're doing. I hope you're at least taking a moment for yourself. And I assume because you hit play on this episode, you are interested in knowing that you are not alone. You want to hear from other women who are navigating this crazy world of infertility. And you want to hear from women who are going through it in motherhood, right? There are so many ups and downs in motherhood, and it's important that you know you're not alone. I am happily finding myself in a quiet moment this morning, which doesn't always happen. It's been a while before I've even attempted to wake up before my kids because it's just doesn't always work for me. And typically I stay up later for my moment of peace alone just because I know I can rely on that. No one's gonna wake up. But there's something about starting your day for you and setting the intentions. I'm trying to get better at that. But I can happily say here I am with coffee in hand, recording this intro for you. No, I'd be lying if I didn't say that. I showered, I got myself ready, I went downstairs to grab my coffee and my computer. And what do I hear? Of course, it was one of the children, it was my oldest, coming downstairs. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because in my mind, I had 40 minutes until anyone usually gets up. But of course, the day that I want to be up before everybody, someone has other plans. No worries, set him up in his room listening to a Tony on his Tony box. And the weather helps too this season because it's literally still dark outside. And I'm like, nope, sun's not up, we're not up. Don't do it. Anyway, here I am, alone, finally in my office. And I'm happy to be here with you because today's episode is one that will move you deeply. I'm joined by Kath Hansen. She's a Brisbane mom of four, founder of the beautiful baby care brand Bubba Cloud, and she's host of the Modern Mother podcast. Kath's journey is a powerful story of love and resilience. Her youngest son, Odin, was born with a rare congenital heart condition and spent the first five months of his life in the hospital. Through surgeries and family challenges and the day-to-day of raising four children, including one with neurodiversity, Kath has found strength in vulnerability and a beautiful sense of grace in the chaos. In our conversation, she opens up about parenting through trauma, protecting your mental health, and finding light even in the hardest seasons of motherhood. We are able to candidly talk about our experiences with the NICU and connect on that level. Even though our experiences were different, there's something about going through such a traumatic event with your child and for long periods of time while also trying to mother others that can really bond two people. So it was so nice to connect with her on that level. And whether you're walking through uncertainty yourself or just need a reminder that you're not alone, this one's for you. Before we dive into this episode, I do want to quickly remind you about your fertility village. It's my online community that was created to support women who are navigating their fertility journeys or simply seeking connection after infertility. It's a space full of resources, real conversations, and women who get it. This community is very near and dear to my heart. And it's something that I am so excited to launch. And I'm just so excited to see where it's going to go because my vision for this community is to hold the hands of women who are in the trenches of infertility. But then as they become mothers or as they make different choices in their family-building journeys, or maybe they choose to live a childless life, wherever that journey takes you, at the end of it, I want your fertility village to still be your space and you will have your people who have chosen similar paths with you to help you through it. Because I can honestly say that after being a NICU mom, a loss mom, an infertility mom, a mom through surrogacy, all the different avenues I took to complete my family, it looks a little different for being a mom of, you know, after 10 years of going through so many different things than another mom who may not have experienced those things. So I want to make sure that women have their village for it all. Currently, I am accepting founding members from now through the end of the year. And the price to be a founding member is only$7 a month. And truly, that is all going back into the community to provide you the best resources and events and really get this village going. As a founding member, you lock in that price for life, regardless of all of the resources and things that we add over time. You will always only pay$7 a month. Plus, you get a special founding member badge and the perks of being part of this village from the ground floor up. You'll help me build it with exactly what you need. I hope you join me. I'm so excited about it. You can join us through the link in today's show notes. Okay, let's get into today's conversation with the amazing Kath Hansen. Kath, thank you so much for joining me today. For listeners who might just be meeting you for the first time, can you share a little bit about your family and what life looks like for you right now?

SPEAKER_02: 5:55

Well, right now it is kind of as always. I am a mum of four. So I have a 12-year-old, nine-year-old, three-year-old, and a one-year-old. We've spent most of the first five months of my one-year-old's life in hospital. So we're just starting to readjust. He's now one back into what I would call a normal life, but it's never normal. Yeah, it's always changing. What is normal? I own an e-commerce business called Bubba Cloud. So I've just relaunched that and looking at really expanding that into more products, of course, but making it a more holistic business that we're not just a baby brand, we also have a big heart behind us, and really making sure that we're holding the mother throughout that pregnancy postpartum motherhood journey as well.

SPEAKER_00: 6:52

Yeah. I love that for a full circle moment. Gotta love that. Tell me a little bit about, let's go back to you said your youngest son just turned one. Your son was born with a rare heart condition. What do you remember about that time?

SPEAKER_02: 7:06

I think it's actually taken me, you know, he's one now, so almost two years to really process this. I was 26 weeks pregnant, and I'd actually missed my. So I'm not sure if it's the same for you guys, but in Australia, we have a 20-week scan that we do. We look at the anatomy and look at yep, everything. Yes, same here. Okay, I had missed that. Fourth child, I'll get to it. And we're going through a very busy, hectic, emotional time in other stuff in our lives. So I was like, I'll just kind of put it to the side. Anyway, my doctor was, I want you to go and get it done. And I was okay, okay, I'll get it done. And interestingly, it actually presented to hospital because I'd had a few panic attacks at about 24 weeks, and they had done an ultrasound and they checked the NOVA and everything, and everything was fine. So again, I was kind of like I was seen, it's okay. Yeah, it's all good. So anyway, I went into this uh scan. I went up by myself and I laid on that table for about two hours while they looked over me. Now the scenographer was a she was coming over for X from X-ray, so she was training to be a scenographer, and I was oh she's just practicing, she's just training. It's fine, it's all good, but I want to get out of here now. I'm really sore now, it's two hours. And then they brought another person in. Yeah, yeah. And she looked at it, and they're all just kind of I don't know, there's a look on their faces, and you just kind of know. I wish I remember their exact words, but it was something to the nature of there's something that we can't see on his heart, but we're gonna go and get the senior obstetrician up to have a look at you. I waited for him, but he was in surgery. They're like, actually, he can't come and see you. He's gonna call you within the next, I think I've I'm sure they said two weeks. And I was what two weeks. It was a long time to wait. I just got up and I had I just I I burst into tears. I'd had some external stuff going on where people had said not very nice things and directly related to the pregnancy and the baby and whatnot, and I was just like, there can't be anything wrong with this baby because I felt just made these people right. That was my instant reaction, and I kind of yeah, just walked out of there, what the heck is going on? Funnily enough, I ran into my doula from my third birth, who was just a saint and made that journey very beautiful, everything I could kind of wish for for a pregnancy and a postpartum. And that was just a bit of a guiding light angel sitting there out in the elevators for me. Thankfully, by 5 p.m. that afternoon, the obstetrician called us and he said, Look, yep, there's I was on my daughter's bedroom floor, there's something going on with his heart. One of the valves is closed, but I can't give you too much more detail. I'm gonna book you into the maternal fetal medicine team down in Brisbane. So we lived on the Sunshine Coasts, and your listeners probably have no idea what I'm talking about, but it's about an hour, hour and a half away from each other. But the maternal fetal the MARDA hospital has a bigger resource, it has that maternal fetal medicine team. And then thankfully they called us almost straight away. Okay, so it's like again, you might not hear from them for a week.

SPEAKER_00: 10:39

Long time, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 10:41

Yeah, so this is a Friday afternoon, and they called us straight away and they booked us in on Monday, which was amazing, but also kind of frightening that they went to see us so quickly. So that was the initial finding out of that. Yeah, yes, it was a very numb weekend. I think I really tried to just have positive self-talk, and I just did my best to look for what I possibly could to get through the weekend.

SPEAKER_00: 11:12

It's really all you can do at that point, right?

SPEAKER_02: 11:15

Yes, yeah, and it was just unbelievable. And I guess I was really naive to all of this, being your fourth baby and nothing I hadn't experienced anything this before. Thankfully, I hadn't experienced loss before, so it was just very surreal. Fast forward to the Monday, we went to the maternal fetal medicine team. That was a very intense, numb process, and I think probably I just had to go numb because that's how I survived.

SPEAKER_00: 11:42

Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a survival mode tactic. I'm I'm familiar with that as well.

SPEAKER_02: 11:47

Yeah, absolutely. I remember going into the room, obviously, and the cardiologist was there, and the another sonographer, but this sonographer was amazing. Her job is to look the way they spoke to each other, bounced off each other, which made me feel good.

SPEAKER_00: 12:04

You know what they're doing.

SPEAKER_02: 12:05

I don't have to go and get lots of different opinions. And the cardiologist, he kind of scared me to begin with, and ended up having a really beautiful relationship with him. Grateful for him throughout our journey. He was someone we always looked to. The cardiologist comes in with the maternal fetal medicine nurse, they sit us down, and he basically says, It's time to listen. And he had this really elaborate drawing of a heart, and he said, This is what's going on. Your baby has pulmonary attraction, which means the valve to the right side of the right chamber is closed, which means that his right chamber is severely underdeveloped, and it really probably won't develop. I know your listeners can't see, but there's your left side of your heart, and his right is this big, it doesn't do anything. Now that's the chamber that to your lungs. He explained that in bed is quote unquote fine, but left out to breathe and whatnot. That was also a lot of numb.

SPEAKER_00: 13:18

That's a lot to digest.

SPEAKER_02: 13:20

Just I can remember the nurse, just kept looking back to me and then back at the cardiologist. And I remember Trent jumped in and was wait, wait, wait, wait, and he said something like that doctor was no, you need to stop and let me explain. In that moment, I was like, Who are you?

SPEAKER_01: 13:38

Stop and delivering this news to us.

SPEAKER_02: 13:42

But in hindsight, I see now he really just needed to get all of that information out, which then led us to, you know, we are questioning, we are okay, what do we do? What's what does his life look like? What yeah, kind of puzzled and confused, which led them to give us the three options of his life. They said that I could go and terminate basically straight away. They the second option was to do palliative care. And I wasn't aware of what palliative care was.

SPEAKER_00: 14:15

I thought naively that was for older people who are in yeah, that's unless you're in that situation, I would have thought the same.

SPEAKER_02: 14:24

Yes, quickly for your listeners, in case they're not aware of what that is, that is where baby is birthed at full term and decides when they leave. Now, with that option, he uh said that heart babies can last two days, six hours, two days, two weeks, three months. Oh gosh. Yeah, uh just that's a lot. Our third option was to birth baby at home and go down the surgery route. That was just a big meeting. We walked out of that hospital very just silent.

SPEAKER_00: 15:05

It's a decision that you shouldn't have to make. That's hard. It's a lot to digest.

SPEAKER_02: 15:10

I don't really have the words to be honest with you to describe it. I think I probably went into instant problem solving mode. I called my best friend and reflecting on it now, I believe I was almost trying to reassure everyone around me that everything was going to be okay.

SPEAKER_00: 15:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 15:27

I believe I did that throughout a lot of the journey. I suppressed a lot of my emotions because I want everyone around me to stay positive. And I don't know if everyone could quite hold how heavy this was. And that's nothing on them, it's just not everyone has the ability. And I think if you haven't been through that scenario, you probably don't know how to hold it.

SPEAKER_00: 15:53

Yeah, it's true. I mean, unless you're in that, you can try and imagine given the facts, but it's other people aren't gonna understand that that weight for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 16:02

Yeah, and then comes into it opinions of what other people would do and them potentially overlaying their opinions. And yeah, it was a very interesting decision to move through and make sure that we weren't influenced by anyone else's opinion. Um, and it was a very much a heart decision.

SPEAKER_00: 16:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 16:25

Yeah. So within two days we knew we were going to do, and that was that was harrowing. That time it was just, I remember sitting on the bathroom floor, just yelling to the angels, you know, yelling to the universe, saying, Why me? Why now? Like, aren't we already going through enough shit? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:44

How are we taking on one more thing?

SPEAKER_02: 16:46

Yeah, I just couldn't believe it. And then I felt this poor something that topped the whole or sat very much at the top was the guilt that I felt for my other children, and they were very much a part of the decision-making process to birth Odin. I've just got battled with mother guilt as I think we all do before, and nothing had felt quite like that.

SPEAKER_00: 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 17:15

So yeah, two days it took. I was actually pup-packing Bubba Clouds, and I pulled out uh packing so many like 200 pre-orders or something like that.

SPEAKER_00: 17:27

So I knew I just had to keep going. As we do, yeah.

unknown: 17:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 17:33

Pre-orders out. And I look back up, there's a video of me packing, and I'm like, yeah, now I can see. I'm like, oh, that's that wild.

SPEAKER_00: 17:40

Like when you look back at some photos, there's been times where I've been, you know, whether it was following a loss or just same thing, like a really heavy, like fork in the row that we're trying to navigate. And I will see a picture of myself from that time now. And there I was doing life, but I can immediately feel what I was feeling in that moment. There is a level of numbers towards it because you said earlier, it's it's really a survival mode. I mean, you have other kids, you have a business you're running, and you have this super heavy decision, and and just gosh, all of it at once. But as we do as moms, we're just there you are. You're just keep going and doing your best.

SPEAKER_02: 18:17

Yeah, exactly. That's yeah, really packing up product. I couldn't let these customers down. I couldn't wait. Yeah. And I was also packing a baby product and packing a baby lounger. So it was just a yeah, almost full circle. It was just intense to be looking at these products. And I did feel I think what got me through that was actually I felt just this massive sense of gratitude that I was able to, no matter what my situation was, I was able to pack these for these mums, and these clouds were going to hold many memories, babies, and I think that's what moved me through. I picked up a pinstripe above a cloud cover, and I don't know, I don't know what it was, whether the angels are coming down, they knew what it was, but I just looked at it and that's when I saw him. And I don't know, something switched, and I was like, okay, we're birthing. That's it.

SPEAKER_00: 19:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 19:17

Yeah, yeah. So that was the decision day.

SPEAKER_00: 19:21

Yeah, goodness. And then from there, I mean, I'm sure that's scary too, right? Even though you made the decision, it's what what next? What is that gonna look like?

SPEAKER_02: 19:30

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it was a lot of appointments. We were back and forth from the hospital one or two times a week and going through a lot of a lot of planning. It was around that time that we decided that we were actually going to move to Brisbane to birth baby. Okay. We probably could have stayed on the coast, but now looking at it, it would have been nearly impossible to stay out the coast. I really wanted to make sure that the older children and the two-year-old at the time was able to pop in for 15 minutes if they wanted to, or go and see him before school if they wanted to. I wanted them very much involved, as much as they wanted to be involved in the process. It also would have meant that if we were on the course, that because I was a scheduled C section, I wouldn't have been able to drive back and forth to the big kids. I would have been away from them. I felt it was a more of a moving was a disruption, but I felt like that would have just been a massive disruption. And now looking at the five months, pretty much five months that we spent in hospital, um, that was the right decision.

SPEAKER_00: 20:46

Yeah, that was gonna be my next question. Obviously, there was a lot involved and long months in the hospital and everything, and all before his first birthday. This is the start of all of this. Was it multiple surgeries? And then was he in the NICU, or what did daily life look like during that season for all of you? It sounds like the move was obviously helpful and manageable. You guys all had access, but I'm familiar with the NICU as well. My oldest son spent four months in the NICU when he was born, 24 weeks, extremely premature. And those are long days, and it's groundhog day, and then you add in surgeries, everything you're navigating. What did that daily life look like for you during that season of hospital stays?

SPEAKER_02: 21:26

Yes, well, you're right. Thank gosh we moved because the hospital's 15 minutes away, and they did tell us that we needed to be from 36 weeks gestation. We needed to be within 15 minutes from the hospital. And I was also becoming more high risk. I've been back a little bit, I was becoming more high risk by 34 weeks. We had moved.

SPEAKER_00: 21:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 21:49

Uh two days before we moved. This is the other part of Odin's story. Two days before we moved, I had had a amniocentosis, I was very full of fluid. I'm and I was just huge, yeah, very sore. I had the amniocentosis, and it came back as a positive for a genetic condition called 22Q deletion. I'm missing a part of his 22 chromosome.

SPEAKER_00: 22:17

Oh wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 22:19

Yes, which explained the heart disease.

SPEAKER_00: 22:22

Gotcha. And was this possibility on your radar? Did they mention anything about how I don't know if the heart disease it could just be random or if that was a way to confirm, or was this just because of your fluid, then they did the test?

SPEAKER_02: 22:36

Yeah, this obstetrician that I hadn't seen was like, Why haven't you had an amniocentosis? And I was like, Well, I don't really need one. They did the genetic test, the NIPS test way back at four weeks, six weeks, pregnant, whatever it was. And he's like, No, you need to go and get one. And I remember him saying, Don't worry, everything will be fine, but I want you to go and get one. And he must have seen a look on my face. Yeah. Then I went in and I was like, and by that time I had completely surrendered. I think I'm quite a holy it's a holistic person, and I can look at birth as that kind of experience. But this was completely completely the opposite. We fast forward to two days before we moved at 34 weeks pregnant. We found out, and by that time I was like, oh well, the house is packed. We're in. This doesn't it does it change anything, and we had just I just accepted that Odin would be two years. It does place a lot more complications. 22Q deletion, which is also known as the George syndrome, can be widespread, the effects of it from ADHD to clect palate to lower immunity, to uh learning delays, to heart defects.

SPEAKER_00: 24:01

This is all this is new to me. I I was not familiar with this. That's gosh, I can only imagine how are you feeling now with even now finding out this new information. I guess you did mention you surrendered, and I think sometimes that's that's what we have to do. I'm a lot like you. I've also been a big advocate for myself and been like, well, why are we doing this or why? But sometimes I feel like it when things start piling up, we're only capable of handling so much. And sometimes you do have to surrender and pray for the best and trust the doctors that they know what they're doing because that's that's a lot.

SPEAKER_02: 24:31

Yeah, and that that was it. It was just like, okay, what we have to do.

SPEAKER_00: 24:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 24:37

Yeah, been through so much that year that it was kind of just another thing that we another obstacle, another thing that we needed to overcome. Of course, they gave us the option again that we could terminate then or birth and do palliative care. But as I said, those those options just weren't went through them in depth, of course, as you do, but they just weren't an option for us. Um, I couldn't I couldn't envision bringing a baby home and one day him being there and the next day him not, or you know, like the kids waking up and him not being with us anymore.

SPEAKER_00: 25:14

Yeah. So I couldn't do that either, and that's a lot to think about, uh, especially because you you said you have other kids. It's a family that we're thinking about. It's not you as the mom or as parents, it's you've got a whole family.

SPEAKER_02: 25:26

So that's right. And even if we were in hospital for two months with him, and that's how long he chose to be on the earth for, I would be there the whole time. Like I wouldn't have been with the other kids at all. And also, as you are pro I'm not sure what it's like for you guys, but in NICU, we you can't stay there.

SPEAKER_00: 25:45

Yeah, I think every hospital is different, but yeah, for us at our hospital, no, you couldn't stay. It was every every day we were going up and home back and forth every day. Yeah, just so that in itself is so hard, but I think knowing that we and we were there with my oldest, we didn't have children at home yet, and it was a little more manageable, but I we talk about this all the time because I have three children now on, and I I can't imagine having to go back and forth. It's it's a lot, as you know.

SPEAKER_02: 26:14

Yeah, much, yeah. Yes, 22Q dilution. We moved I had 2.5 liters of amyloid fluid drained from my stomach.

unknown: 26:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 26:28

At about 36 weeks, I was stayed in hospital for three nights then. That was weird that process. The amino symptosis and just having a needle into your stomach while you're pregnant is really weird.

SPEAKER_00: 26:45

Yeah, that's jarring. I can only imagine. It's something doesn't feel right.

SPEAKER_02: 26:50

No, it doesn't feel right. And again, even with that, I've had just like okay, that's what you need to do. Of course, there's a risk of rupture and having to birth early, which they didn't want for him. They wanted him as meaty and grown as as possible. We were birth going to birth at 39 weeks, we ended up birthing at 38 weeks. He was worried, I just kept filling up with fluid, it just wouldn't fill up. It felt like I had broken ribs all the time. Oh just because it was just full, right?

SPEAKER_00: 27:26

All that pressure. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 27:28

Yes, and that's how I kind of said to them look. This isn't normal. I keep pushing, I feel he's in my ribs, and I keep pushing him out. But when we would look, he wouldn't be in my ribs, and that's how we kind of what came. The physio came and saw me while I was in hospital, and she's like, Yeah, it's it's torn basically. Your muscles there are torn, but painful.

SPEAKER_00: 27:51

I did not experience that specifically, but I had with my second, I had polyhydramniose, which was excessive fluid. And that's when I started to learn that that could point towards different things. It was a little bit earlier on, I think I was 21 weeks or 22, something like that. They didn't want to do any kind of tests at that point. And I wasn't, I wasn't what you're describing, it wasn't that big, but I had no idea that this fluid that all this fluid was even a thing. They gave me other medications, and I spent the month in the hospital because it was causing preterm labor and all this stuff. Eventually it calmed down. But one of the things they said, but could point to certain genetic factors, and same thing, I did um the test that you do early on. And then, you know, we did IVF. This was an embryo that we genetically tested. So, and you you don't know what you don't know. I didn't know all of the other things that not every test cover every single thing, you know. Like I was just like, Well, we I think we're good. At that point, they were telling me they were like, Well, it could just be a fluke too. Sometimes, you know, excess of fluid is just something that happens in pregnancy, and I'm okay, and and it did go down with medication, but um yeah, I was not in as much pain as you, but it I definitely looked further along than I was. Yeah, gosh, I'm so how so then you had your scheduled C-section, and that all went smoothly, or how did was delivery? Was that okay? And then how soon after delivery was his first surgery?

SPEAKER_02: 29:19

Yeah, so we yeah, delivered 38 weeks on the dot. He came out. I had made a pack to him. I said, mate, you need to come out at three kilos. That's what I want you to hit. He was 2.8 or whatever when we'd had our last ultrasound. And he came out, and my um maternal fiddle medicine midwife ran over to me and she said, He's three kilos on the dot, three kilos. That's my first sign. I just took it as a sign. I was right, we're on, we're on, it's okay. The birth itself was I could say beautiful, but it was scary as fuck, actually. No idea. Did you deliver C section?

SPEAKER_00: 30:02

I did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 30:03

Okay. Yeah. It's intrusive at it at its at its best.

SPEAKER_00: 30:08

Yeah. And a scheduled C-section too. I it's mine was scheduled as well. Mine was at 37 weeks and one or two days. And it's weird walking in there knowing, all right, this is what we're doing. It's an odd feeling. It's very stressful.

SPEAKER_02: 30:23

Yeah, it's baby morning. We're driving to the hospital to have a baby.

SPEAKER_00: 30:26

Yep, just walking in.

SPEAKER_02: 30:28

You know, it's my whole C-section. I don't think it becomes any more familiar, right? That feeling of going to the hospital to Yeah. Yeah, it was it. That hospital, I it was just amazing. And they definitely looked after me. There was a lot of people in that room. A lot of people, the intensive care unit was there waiting, or the critical care unit was there waiting for him in the other room to go straight. And they said he will probably go straight to them. You won't be able to cuddle him, you won't be able to give him a kiss. He will just go straight over to the team. I that was Trent's job to go over and be with him. Yeah. And we got photos and we had music on. It was pretty sure it was delivered to Keith Urban. Days go by.

unknown: 31:19

That's funny.

SPEAKER_02: 31:20

Yeah, it was that one, and we we had a a lovely playlist, and uh the oh gosh, I kind of remember the song. Anyway, it brought the tears on. Of course. Yeah, it was surreal being stitched up because I was being stitched up and the baby was over there. I could yeah, you can't move. I think you innately want to get up and go over.

SPEAKER_00: 31:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 31:42

But we're stuck. Yeah. I I also had a fear around the spinal block because I had been injured from like a spinal block before. Thankfully, it was all good. Go ahead. Thank gosh, because I couldn't think I could go through the aftermath of being having that injury in a critical care unit. Thank you. That was great. I did get the shakes and sick, which I hadn't experienced before in a C-section birth, but that was pretty much it. And yeah, wheeled out into the recovery unit. I got very cold. I hadn't experienced that before, so they had to keep me for a while until I warmed up. Yeah. Did you experience that?

SPEAKER_00: 32:25

No, I did not experience that. I didn't know my oldest, because he was he was he was born vaginally, but a premature. I was, I was after eight days of bed rest in the hospital, and then he was a total surprise, quick birth, and then c-section with my second. And then my youngest actually was carried by a surrogate because I've had this and just complications and my body could not do anymore. But when my I had my C-section, I did not, I didn't experience that. But it is weird wanting to just your body, you just want to get up and be go get your baby and you're and you can't. And it's just it feels unnatural. But that honestly, I didn't know really any different at that point because both my youngest same thing being premature. The second he was born, the team rushed in, and I don't think I held him for the first time for nine days because he was premature and he was all the bells and whistles and plugged up and and and and all of that. Even though I had to wait with the C-section to hold my second son, it was for me, I was, well, this is nothing because before I had to wait long, but yeah, none of it feels natural just to birth and then not be able to just hold your baby. It's it's all it's all very strange. But yeah, that's interesting. We've done this three times before, and it was some different things going on for you. I wonder if just too your body, just with everything and the news and distress, and it's just it kind of just you did it.

SPEAKER_02: 33:41

Yeah, I think very much. Yeah, the stress I've looked into that and the impacts of stress and whatnot, and a lot of things kind of make sense. Yeah, we headed. I was in there for a little while in the recovery unit. Always, I don't know how these medications affect you, but I I'm always slightly off my face. Happy, happy, but just woo, in another world.

SPEAKER_00: 34:05

Yeah, yeah, that's how I felt. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02: 34:11

Yeah. Getting little updates from Trent that all the nurses, I'm pretty sure they were all communicating that he was okay, that they had to do some suction. He went straight on to some oxygen. He was doing okay. Now they give them prostin to keep the valves and the the things pumping. Prostin. Okay, the medication or to bring on labor.

SPEAKER_00: 34:36

Oh, that's the same thing. Oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 34:39

They give the baby to keep things going. That medication kept him alive for until he had his first surgery, which was at about 20 days old.

SPEAKER_00: 34:53

Okay. Wow. And going into this, did you know that it was going to be multiple surgeries, or was it kind of just uh you knew he was gonna have one and then it was gonna see how this worked out, or did you know the game plan before he was born? I don't know how that works.

SPEAKER_02: 35:09

Yes and no. I think they're trying to give you as much information as they possibly can, but there's or always many variables, many variables, especially when we found out that he had 22q deletion. A lot of 22q babies are born with a cleft palate, just other complications, breathing complications, low immunity, and things like that. So you have to kind of keep that in mind. But they did say that was secondary to the heart. The heart was the most important thing that they were going to focus on. We were 10 days in the critical care unit at MARDA before we transferred over to the next door hospital, Queensland Children's Health Hospital. Unfortunately, the day that we transferred over to Queensland's children's hospital, he got neck, which I'm not gonna try and say necro acrylitis.

SPEAKER_00: 36:06

I'm not gonna judge you, it sounds good to me.

SPEAKER_02: 36:08

Intestines basically start dissolving. A lot of primary babies actually get it, yeah. Which was crazy, and that's when we had our first met call.

SPEAKER_00: 36:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 36:19

Yeah, that put off his surgery. We were waiting, waiting for a bed over in the hospital, but also waiting for his surgery to be a lot of markers have to be ticked before he can go in. They're very amazing at oh gosh, kudos to these cardiologists and cardiothoracic surgeons because they're very much if we have to do it now, we will do it and we'll we'll make it happen. But we'd rather this, this, and this, and this, and this to be ticked off. Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, he got neck and he was off food, off milk, poor little guy, for seven days and full doses of antibiotics. He was hungry, they can't you can't eat. Yeah, it was just okay not very nice.

SPEAKER_00: 37:05

No, yeah, that's hard.

SPEAKER_02: 37:07

Yes, and the first met call going through that, I had left. We'd moved hospitals and I had left with my mum for two hours, maybe. I'd obviously been by his side for days and days and two hours to come back and put the kids to bed, or whatever I was doing at home. And on the way back, I got the call, you need to come in. I can't really again, I wish I remember the words, but I know that the nurse kept calling him a girl and that the baby's sick. You she's sick, you need to get come back here now. And I was like, she, my baby, my baby's a boy.

unknown: 37:48

What?

SPEAKER_02: 37:49

Yeah. I'm not gonna use this right now. Oh, yes, Odin. Yes, Hansen, baby of Hansen, yeah, yeah. So gosh. Poor Mum. I almost bit Mum's head off because she's obviously, oh my god, what's happened? Stressing out. And I was drive. We need to get there.

SPEAKER_00: 38:09

Of course it's the two hours, of course it's the time you leave, right? You're up there all the time. Then you leave. That is, isn't that what happens?

SPEAKER_02: 38:18

Yeah, and maybe it was a good thing. I don't know, because if I was there, the nurses might not have been as on top of him.

SPEAKER_00: 38:25

Yeah, that's a good point. Maybe wouldn't be as yeah, urgent and on it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 38:30

Yeah. I might I might not have noticed. Um, although, you know, they do their hourly checks, which they would have noticed because his temp went right up.

SPEAKER_00: 38:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 38:40

And in that special care nursery, there's only there's only four beds. So it's one nurse with two babies.

SPEAKER_00: 38:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 38:49

And she is a bl she's just an angel. We actually saw her the other day at our cardio checkup, and she's an angel. Very special, very special human. Yeah, we went through seven days and then we were gearing up for surgery.

unknown: 39:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 39:03

To swing back to your question. I'm sorry, I know it's such an in-depth experience.

SPEAKER_00: 39:08

No, trust me, I understand. There's there's so much to it, and it's I'm just appreciate you sharing. It's also a hard thing to like relive, right? And go back to like what were those days like, and it's a lot to share. So I appreciate you doing that. And I I have to agree that there's something about these Nik U nurses that they are angels on earth. I don't know if we would have gotten through it, not even just for their expertise and level of care, but like how caring they are and being there for you. Because I feel they're not only nurses for our babies, but they are they were literally there for us, making sure we were sane through it all. I'm glad you had that person.

SPEAKER_02: 39:42

Yes, in the hospital. Yeah, that both hospitals just had fant you're right, fantastic, amazing nurses that yeah, held us through all of the other things and life changes that we were going through. Phenomenal. Yeah. I I I know we got on the same page with that. He was going to have three surgeries at least.

SPEAKER_00: 40:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 40:07

That was the minimum. We knew that when he was the right weight and everything was cheeked in the early days, he was going to have a shunt. Hopefully that's the right one. Shunt put in, which looked a little coiled. Little white coil, it was tiny, it was a thumbnail long when they got it out and showed us. That's what they put in in the first one. They go into the cath lab to do that, it goes it up through an arterial vein. And I just know something that really shocked me from this experience that I wasn't prepared for. And again, naively, might be the same for you as well. Is how many cords there were, and how many things were inserted into his arterial veins and all the leads coming out of that.

SPEAKER_00: 40:59

I that was something that I was yeah, they don't quite prepare you for that, that's for sure. It was shocking, and and even more just on such a little human, right? There's many things going on, and there's little that that's a lot. Yeah. My son had a few different surgeries as well while he was in the NICU, totally different. But one of the things was with his heart and it was to close, forget what it stands for, but he had PDA of the heart, which is common in premix, especially micropremies, and they had to close a valve or something that normally would close as he matured, but because he was born so early, it just didn't. And yeah, leading up to surgery and after and everything, I'm just like, this is a lot on him, got all these all these things. I was used to assistance with breathing and he had a feeding tube, but yeah, it's a it's a lot.

SPEAKER_02: 41:44

Yeah, you just don't realize.

SPEAKER_00: 41:46

Yeah, you don't, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 41:48

Yeah, he got this chump, stent champ put in his heart to keep the valve open, and that was very much a temporary situation with that. Okay, so that was put in. They went, they tried to go up his leg arterial vein, but his heart started doing funny things, so they had to go through his neck. That was successful throughout that surgery. They also did, and it's literally how the cardiologist described it. There is a better terminology for it, but I've got no idea what it is. They call it a tear, and they couldn't know, it feels like a long time, but they literally pull, he described it as a little balloon and they pull it through to tear something to keep a hole open. So that was another risk factor because you're not relying on something that's being put into that. That's actually a person doing this, right? Yeah, to your baby's body. That was a bit scary, but thankfully, yeah, I'd say a bit scary. Gosh, it was all bloody scary.

SPEAKER_00: 42:50

Thankfully, yeah, that all went well. Good. Yeah, and sorry, I'm thinking back.

SPEAKER_02: 42:56

So this was those that was that both right away, or that was about 20 days old, so we had to get over the neck first. Got it. Um they were never going to do anything to him when he had neck. Yeah, and it was a day-by-day situation. A lot of babies do pass away from having neck, so it was very much day by day, as I said, very thankful they caught it quickly because it does go downhill very quickly, that condition. So you're about 20, 20 days old, if I remember maybe 21 days old, if I remember correctly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 43:28

Goodness. And then did he go on to have because they were guessing about three surgeries, then did he have two more after that? And you said, was it five months total in the hospital?

SPEAKER_02: 43:38

Yeah. So his first one was must have been end of September, early November, and his open heart was in January. Gosh, I should have written this. Oh my gosh, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00: 43:50

It's yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 43:52

It was in January. Um, we were very much in and out of hospital throughout that whole time because he kept getting sick.

SPEAKER_00: 43:58

Um, so he was like sent home from the NICU and would come back for surgery as a or was he in the hospital that whole time?

SPEAKER_02: 44:05

We came out Christmas Eve.

SPEAKER_00: 44:06

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02: 44:07

Oh, he was allowed a day pass for Christmas Day, and then I think we're back in there for two nights, and he then was allowed out. Gosh, I need to write down my timeline, don't I?

SPEAKER_00: 44:19

No, that's okay.

SPEAKER_02: 44:20

I was just curious because November he was a he was out for two weeks, but I went through a very traumatic circumstance within that time. And of course, as mothers, I completely blame myself that he uh got sick. Um, so he's with home for two weeks, and then he was back in, and he was pretty much back in. He might have had that little time around that week, around Christmas, and then it was back in until February.

SPEAKER_00: 44:50

Okay. Wow. Yeah, that's a long time. I'm guessing I'm thinking, especially you mentioned the mom guilt again, which is so real, and we always do this to ourselves. So many moms also just feel guilty for not holding everything together perfectly, especially when there's a child that needs all this extra care and there's so much going on. And not to mention your postpartum yourself. I totally ignored that fact after having my son because since he was in the NICU, it was all about him. And I somehow forgot that I just had a baby. There's a lot going on. What would you say to a mother who's might be in that space right now where they're feeling this guilt, they're trying to hold it together after going through what you went through in that time frame? What would you say to another mom who's in that space of feeling guilty for not doing it all?

SPEAKER_02: 45:37

That's a good question. I think it's about coming home to yourself, to be honest with you. And I know that sounds a bit cliche. We all feel guilt. And I'm not saying that that makes you a good mom or a bad mom, but all of us feel that guilt, and often it can be connected to your value system, I think, as well. So making sure that you are feeding your value system. A lot of us think that motherhood and being mom is the top of our value system, but it might not be. It might be creativity, it might be health, it might be so. I think during that time, if you can feed into those somehow or another, or for me, that's how I felt less guilt. I think it's also a level of acceptance. I know that sounds really baseline, but it's just that's great advice.

SPEAKER_00: 46:29

And even if it sounds baseline now, when you're in it, you're not thinking that way, right? It's it's important to remember those things. You're one person and you can't do it all. And yeah, we're all gonna have guilt. That doesn't mean that you're a good mom or bad mom. It's just part of life, and sometimes it can be a lot to carry. Yeah, giving yourself grace is important for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 46:48

That's right, but giving yourself grace is is it, yeah, that you are human too, and you're going through a human experience, especially in NICU and and that setting. I've spoken to, and I'm sure you have as well, a lot of women where the baby is very much held and and everyone's concerned about the baby, but you're kind of forgotten about. But if I may, the advice that I give you if you are walking into that situation and you don't have lots of support around you, is try to set up your support systems before whether that's a food delivery and any for the other children, if your family can come. I know that's not always possible, especially this day and age where our parents are and aunties and never understood working or whatnot. But that those little supports, whatever you can have in place, I would, I believe it should all be a part of our healthcare system.

SPEAKER_00: 47:39

I agree. Yeah, absolutely. I'm gonna absolutely and that's real that's really great advice. And especially it's hard. You had three other children too. I mean, there is a lot going on. How are you feeling with balancing all of that? Your other kids, how did they take it? I mean, that's a busy, stressful time, and I don't know for sure, I'll ask, but I'm I imagine it wasn't just he had these surgeries, he came home and oh my gosh, now every chapter closed. That's not how it works, obviously. You just mentioned he had a follow-up visit. There's always things that are gonna come up with every kid, right? How did you manage all of the moving parts of four children and one with needs that are taking up a lot of your time?

SPEAKER_02: 48:21

I really don't know how I managed. I think we've grown so much external stuff that I'm very there wasn't a question of I can't do this. And there were, don't get me wrong, there were many days that I woke up and honestly didn't want to be here anymore. Many, many days, especially going through that traumatic event in November. I just yeah, I didn't want to continue. I wasn't excited for the next day. I was, yeah, yeah, I'd never known survival mode like this before. Yeah, but I had no other option because one thing, I didn't, we don't have much support where we live. I'm not around my family. Very grateful for my mum being around us for so much in those early months. I think she spent about three months in total up here, but she doesn't live here, but she was very much our core support. She was able to help with the older kids going back and forth and to school, and she very much upheld that kind of a routine. I think we found a routine eventually. What happened in November meant that Trent did a lot of the overnights with Odin. That did kind of strip me, is the way I see it. Stripped me of that experience of being with him overnight. But in our family circumstance, he at the time wasn't able to be at home with the older children, the different farmers. So moving through that as well. So yeah, mum was mum was here to uh support us. It was really hard. To be honest with you, it was really fucking hard. We were also rebuilding businesses. I was my soul was just yearning to relaunch Baba Cloud, but I knew it wasn't the right time. And I hadn't worked for what felt so long for my creativity, that is hard. Yeah, but for finances, that is not fun. A balance I couldn't afford in any. I and I give the advice of surround yourself with the the meal deliveries and all of this. But for me, that wasn't my situation with this birth. I don't know why I look at it. Gosh, couldn't have been the other one where I had resources to make life.

SPEAKER_00: 50:30

Yeah, life is fun.

SPEAKER_02: 50:32

Yeah, I would be thankful when someone would send a meal, but I definitely didn't have the resources to support myself through these, but it was uh I had to get up and keep going. Like there was yeah, otherwise my kids wouldn't have survived, not survived, but yeah, the transition was hard. They started new schools. I don't know, it was to survival mode. We say, Yeah. I kudo myself for having their life set up, their sports were set up, their activities were set up, their school was set up, everything I tried to emulate what they had at our old place. It was the smoothest transition I could possibly make for the other children. Now, Bobby May, she was too, she didn't really understand, but the older kids absolutely understood what was going on.

SPEAKER_00: 51:23

That's really amazing that you did that. It's important for them. Just as moms, we try and keep some normalcy and routine for them because that's what's best and that's what they know. But that's hard to do. And you should give yourself kudos because keeping it together for yourself and your baby and the rest of the kids and trying to make the best choices for everyone is no easy feat. It's a lot. Um, and you should be proud of yourself. That is a lot. Can you even believe it's been over a year now?

SPEAKER_02: 51:49

No, and I keep reflecting and getting the memories up on my phone. And I've actually spoken to my psychologist about this because once his first birthday hit, I felt this new wave of grief. I it was just I haven't really dived into it as much as I need to yet. But I definitely felt the burnout, the crash has started to come. I might have just caught myself because I saw the signs of the burnout.

SPEAKER_00: 52:18

Regardless of the situation, the first birthday is always such a big moment of reflection in general. And I felt it with every single one of my kids. But yeah, it does hit different when you've gone through something like that. And with my son who was in the NICU, we mentioned yes, his first birthday came. He was still trying to catch up to his age. He was three months behind, doing things three months younger than his actual age. There were so many therapies, physical therapy, speech therapy, follow-ups, all the things that follow a NICU stay and surgeries and just everything related to his health. It is that moment that hit extra hard, I think, at that first birthday. You stop and take a look at what just happened in the last year, and you're like, Whoa, yeah, the burnout is real, and you don't even realize because you're just going, going, going, and you're doing everything you can for them. And it's just it's a big moment, I think. That first birthday and looking back, and it's that's awesome that you have a psychologist that you talk to. I eventually started talking to someone a few years later. It's kind of smacks you in the face sometimes when you're like, Whoa, that was that was very traumatic. I've been in survival mode for longer than I can imagine. I don't even realize I was, but I'm feeling it now. And at a time where you should be like, I don't know, like so happy and proud, and like, wow, they're one. I felt all the emotions. I felt guilt. I felt, wow, he's been through so much and he's only one. I felt like I've lived 10 lives in the last year. I'm actually happy you shared that because I think it's so important for anyone in a similar situation to like check in with someone, a therapist, a friend with yourself. It'll sneak up on you.

SPEAKER_02: 53:44

Definitely. And you might not feel better, you probably won't feel better in the moment. I think for me, I realized I had the psychologist and I stuck to it and I tried to seek out, you know, the social workers and those opportunities in the hospital because I I came to a place in my head where I was actually, and it was not a nice feeling at all. No one can no one can help me. It was very helplessness and and all the external circumstances that were going on. No one uh can help me. That was hard, and that's what had me, you know, really questioning my existence. If no, if no one can help me, then what the fuck's the point getting here?

SPEAKER_00: 54:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 54:24

We talk about seeking help and we talk about talking to a friend and all of this stuff. Well, if if no one can actually change my circumstance or the external things that are going on, then what's the fucking point? And that was probably one of the hardest thought processes that I had to get to through.

SPEAKER_00: 54:45

Yeah, it's it's relatable, it's hard to share and it's hard to hear. It's relatable, and I'm guaranteed there are listeners that know exactly what you're talking about right now, where you're like, that's great. I can go talk to somebody, but I have this, this, and this. And how is anyone? They're not gonna take it off my plate, they're not gonna do this for me. What is the point? What's going on? And it's a hard place to sit in and realize that that's where you're at and that's how you're feeling, but it is real. I've felt that way too. Where you get up the next day and I'm just like, I don't, I don't know how I'm gonna keep doing all this. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_02: 55:18

This is not a vibe.

SPEAKER_00: 55:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 55:22

Yeah, and it took time. And if someone is listening that feels that way, it took time, and it's so hard when you're in that frame of mind to one, give yourself grace, but also to remind yourself as pleached as it is that it is just the season and you will get through it. And I really dislike people who would say that to me through that through that time.

SPEAKER_00: 55:46

Yeah, it's not something you want to hear when you're in it.

SPEAKER_02: 55:49

No, you're actually not helping me right now. Like, if you can wash the fucking dishes and put no thing on, that's what you can do to help.

SPEAKER_00: 55:55

That that's helpful. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 55:58

Telling me that it'll all be okay because right now it feels fucking out of hand.

SPEAKER_00: 56:02

Yeah. Honestly, one of the things that I remember, like I appreciated hearing sometimes, whether it was with my son and and everything with the NICU and everything that followed, or like our losses. I just liked when people are like, you know what, this sucks. It sucks. I didn't want to hear that it'll be fine, or you'll be why don't we just sometimes you just gotta admit that this is terrible. It's terrible. And yeah, let's just sit in that for a second.

SPEAKER_02: 56:24

Yes, uh a hundred and ten percent. I was always so thankful to people for the people that were wow, mate, you're so strong. And you've been through the works, but once I hit this first birthday, right milestone of reflection, I was like, I not I wouldn't say this to to to people who say it because I know it comes from a good place, but I'm like, I don't actually want to be the strong one anymore. I'm really tired. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 56:49

I remember when people would say that, wow, you're the strongest mom I know, you're so strong. And I just remember being annoyed too, because I remember thinking, I don't really think I had a choice. I don't, I'm not patting myself on the back because I'm so strong, I just don't think there was any other way to be because I have to, and I don't know how much you know, how long can I do that?

SPEAKER_02: 57:06

Exactly. And a lot of my support system came from social media, so I always questioned sharing oversharing and sharing too much of his journey and whatnot on social media. But boy, did they save me daily. I didn't have the people who I thought would show up for us show up, and that was a grieving process in itself. I definitely grieved my dad throughout that year. I've let him die, but to I let him go. Yeah, that I think that one's just the core that that grief process it's it's that balance between acceptance that people have for their own lives, and I feel I was probably too accepting of that. Yeah, there was minimal accountability, and I I didn't really have I didn't also didn't have the space to be able to go through any of those kinds of conversations. But if you if your friend or your sister is going through an ICU process, that text message every second day to let them know they're loved, and that meal drop off, uh being in a different state and things that isn't really an excuse anymore when there's so many options available to us. Yep, that matters so much. That's leading from that kind, empathetic space. And I think, yeah, for me, that experience made me realize some people don't have that space, some people don't have that depth. And I don't try and say that in a mean way, but if we can raise awareness around that you could literally be saving someone's life, let's be real, yeah, uh, by leading with kindness, like it's so impactful. And the more I really believe the more we hold women, whether it's through birth, postpartum, etc., the better our world will be and the more in tune our children will be.

SPEAKER_00: 58:57

I completely agree. And it's it's hard and it's sad that it it often takes a situation like this where you are realizing there will be a shift in the relationships in your life. I felt it with our miscarriages, with when our daughter was stillborn with my son and the NICU. I mean, we had there were so many people that I thought would be there that weren't. They were the ones that always showed up. We knew they would. And then there were friends who really stepped up, even though they didn't know how, but a text, a meal job, like no one knows what to do. And I've experienced this so many times where no one really knows until if you're in that situation yourself. In hindsight, I'm like, now that I've been through grief and trauma and things, and I think of other people in my life, and I'm like, I should have done more. I didn't know what to do for them. And I think the biggest thing is what you said. You don't have to overthink it. Send the text, send the meal, whatever it is, it truly can have such a big impact, and not to be dramatic, but like could save somebody's life when spreading that to everybody, regardless of what they're going through, and especially holding moms in the postpartum and and All of that. There's so much going on for a woman during all of that, whether you have extra circumstances or not, it's a lot. And it would make such a big difference to women everywhere if we just really keep that in mind and remember how little things will go such a long way.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:16

Yeah, I totally agree. And I don't want to be morbid, but it's a very real scenario. When, if I may, when people choose to leave the world, people come around them and talk about if they had to just reach out for help, if they had just gone to the psychologist, if they had just told me what was going on, if they had just told me they needed a six-week sleep in whatever it is, we could have helped. So like can you fucking show up? Like I'm struggling.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:07

And anyone who is struggling in any kind of way, but even to that degree, they could have would have they they're struggling. You can't ask for what you don't know you need, but you just need something, but you don't know what's going to help. You just never know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:22

Yeah, like why aren't those people, or you if you're one of those people, showing up before? Where's that support system before? And that's what I talk about with holding the mother. I think if that is there before any of that, we potentially may see less mum rage. And don't we want the women and the mothers in our lives to be we're not gonna be old all the time, but less pressure, more joyous?

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:45

Not burnt out in a very big topic.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:48

Yeah. Oh my gosh, yes, I completely agree. One of the things I was just gonna ask you was how has you answered this in a roundabout way, but how has this whole experience changed the way you see motherhood or even yourself as a woman? You know, now that you've been through this and you've been at really low points and you've been so burnt out and you've managed so many things. I mean, how do you see yourself now? How has this experience changed motherhood for you?

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:11

It's profound. That year was profound, to be honest with you. It's what happened with Odin, and then what I call the traumatic event, which involved my two older children at the end of the year. I think I would never ever wish what happened in November with my older children on another mother, and I wish that it didn't take such a traumatic event for me to understand what a good mum I was. And I can very confidently say that I'm a good mum. Yes, I fuck up, that I'm not perfect, absolutely. Yeah, but it took all of that for me to know that I'm a good mum. That's wild.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:55

And I want there to be something out there that helps women and mothers understand that before they have to go through, and I I know the universe delivers you these lessons, and you know, there we can be blessings and gratitude and all of that, but God, you need to go through something fucking horrendous. Yeah, yeah. Did that answer your question? Because I've totally forgotten what your question was.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:18

Yeah, I was just asking. I mean, this change this the whole experience is so much, and I was just curious how it changed, you know, how you view yourself and even motherhood. And yeah, that absolutely makes sense. It's profound, it's a lot. It does, you know, sometimes those horrific moments in life that really unfortunately make you see like, wow, I'm a great mom, or I should do this differently, or I want to help other people because no one should have to go through that, or no one should feel this way. Totally different situation, but I understand where you're coming from. You know, it took me a decade of all sorts of different things with infertility and loss and just things with the kids to finally be like, oh my gosh, I have all this built up knowledge that I didn't want, but I have experiences and I need to put it to good use and I want to help other people. And for me, that's not the podcast started. Life is wild and it takes you in all different directions. And now there's new things. I've been doing the podcast for three years, and now there's new challenges in motherhood that we're dealing with. And as everybody does, uh with every season comes something new to learn and tackle.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:21

But speaking of that, when doing and putting energy into other things in our life before we go on to touch on a couple other things, I want to talk about Bubba Cloud. And I'd love to know how did this brand come to life? What inspired you to make this beautiful baby care line? Tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:39

So I actually purchased the business of a Gold Coast mum back in 2022, and it was created from the idea of Bubba Cloud was she was putting her baby onto a big pillow each morning, or her husband was, and she hand stitched the Bubba Clouds. She made them for her friends and it evolved from there. When I moved into my third pregnancy, this was probably the first pregnancy that was able to not splurge, but I was able to buy something that was nice. Small business is really important to me and supporting mother-led businesses. Now, of course, there are some other baby lounges out there, but I found Bubble Cloud and I connected to the fact that it was on the Gold Coast, it was a mother-led business, it was linen, they used organic cotton, all the boxes, and I was excited to just purchase something. You know, I know my sister was like, You don't need one of those. And I was like, But I really want one. And now looking back at both my third child and Odin, I've used it so so so much. Or it was the bench, the yeah, the land. It was the beach, the park, it's the hospital. It was used in the hospital quite often. It was actually the only way that I could co-sleep with Odin. I used to put him in the Bubba Cloud next to me on the hospital bed and very uncomfortably laid on my side. And that was how I could cuddle him without him being on me. Yeah, I can't. I can picture it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:14

That's perfect for that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:15

The Bubba Cloud.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:16

Sounds like the stars aligned for that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:19

Yes, and purchased it, and then was it six months later? I was looking to get into the e-commerce space and very new to it, very naive. I've worked in digital marketing for a while. So I thought, let's do this, let's move into that space. A baby business came up. I had a baby, it felt amazing. And um, it turns out it was Bop Cloud.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:41

I love that. That's awesome. And you're also the host of the Modern Mother podcast. What is it that sparked that project? And then what kind of conversations are you having on there or hoping to open up for other moms on that show?

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:55

Yeah, cool. I feel like our podcasts are quite aligned in that area. What sparked the modern mother pod is that I wanted it to be the sister brand of Bubba Cloud. We have such a beautiful product, and I call it cradling the baby, holding the mother. I needed that hold the mother element. I needed a bigger, and I wanted my vision for Bubba Cloud is to have a bigger voice around what it is to hold the mother and the way that we did it. I didn't want to be just another baby brand that sold product or that bought, you know, bulk product product off Alibaba and and and sold it for triple the price. I want to make sure that we are a baby brand who truly has a vision, mission, and purpose and cares. And I don't know if I'm doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:45

Like, like none of us know we're ever doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:50

I just don't know. And the truth, like, to be completely real and real with you, the truth is to get Bubba Cloud to the next stage and to build the products that I have lined up that I want to build, I have to generate more income. And I'm I'm really now comfortable saying that. Now that I am giving back in the way through the podcast, it just must be a sole alignment situation. Now I feel obviously there's business elements, and we only have one screw, so that makes generating income more tricky. There is building business and product that way, of course. But yeah, it's really the heart and soul to Bubble Cloud.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:32

It feels like such a good fit, just given your your mission behind Bubble Cloud and just wanting it to be more than just a product. And a podcast is that's exactly what it is. I love when businesses can take that extra step and really wrap it all into one because podcasts, it's such a great space to feel connected to somebody all over the world, right? And get to know them for who they are and their mission and sort these conversations. And I know for myself, when I'm listening to podcasts and they've got a sister podcast to a brand or something, I automatically love the brand because you just feel you are a part of it and talking about it. And that's that's awesome. It feels such a perfect fit for your business and and everything. That's amazing. And when did you when did you start the podcast? How long have you been doing that?

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:13

I started designing two years ago.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:17

Relatable, trust me.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:19

I did post the other day that I did more in two weeks than I did in all of those two years, and given I was going through many life events and whatnot. So that's that's fine. Thought I was ready back then, but maybe I wasn't. Right now, it just feels really aligned. Building it and rebuilding Bubba Cloud is what keeps my mental health in check, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:41

Yeah, I was gonna ask if you feel like it's really therapeutic for you, because I know for me, I set out to what started the podcast three years ago in hopes to help other people. But what I didn't realize is once I started talking and having conversations with other people, this is exactly what I needed. And I may have just created my own therapy because I love this. I love sharing and opening up about not just my story, but hearing other people's insights and makes you feel not alone. Podcasting is really personal, and so I feel like you'll know when it's a good time to start. I did the same thing. I I had everything, my cover art designed, and I had a plan and I had this, and it was years before I actually hit record. And once I did, I just kept going because it just feels like a good time. And I think you know when it is. I'm happy to hear that that's aligning for you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:25

Yeah, absolutely. It is a connection point, I would say. Yeah, for me, yeah. There's not much opportunity to go out and go out for lunch. A lot of my friends are in Sydney, that doesn't really work for me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:35

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:37

Yeah, that connection point that I'm probably missing. You're right, does yeah in turn give back to you. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:44

Where can listeners find you online, connect with you, the podcast, Bubba Cloud? What's the best way to connect with you?

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:51

Probably on Instagram, I would say. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:53

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:53

Instagram, yeah. Instagram's Bubba Cloud, just Bubba Cloud. I'm underscore Kath Hansen, and the Model Mother Pod is the Model Mother Pod.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:02

Perfect. Yeah, and I'll link it all in the show notes to make it easy for everyone to connect with you there. Thank you so much, Kath, for sharing so openly today. I know it is hard to relive some of these hardest moments. I really appreciate it, and I know that it's going to give hope to other women listening and resonate with our audience. I appreciate you sharing your story. Such a beautiful reminder that even in our hardest seasons, connection and courage can carry us through. Even when we're at rock bottom, there's always a way. Thank you for being vulnerable and for sharing. I really appreciate you being on the show.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:37

Thank you for having me. I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:39

What an incredible conversation with Kath. I hope her honesty and strength reminded you that even when motherhood feels heavy, there's always hope, healing, and connection waiting on the other side. If you loved today's episode, make sure to check out Kath's podcast, Modern Mother, and her beautiful baby care brand, Bubba Cloud. All those links are in the show notes. And if you're ready to surround yourself with a community of women who understand the ups and downs of fertility, pregnancy, motherhood after loss, and everything in between, I'd love for you to join us inside your fertility village. It's a space to feel supported, seen, and encouraged exactly when you need it most. You can learn more and become a founding member through the link in the show notes. And be sure to follow along on Instagram at motherhood underscore intended. That's where I will be sharing everything podcast related and everything related to your fertility village. So if you ever forget to go back to the show notes or forget the link, just hop on over to Instagram. You'll find everything there. Until next time, remember, you're doing better than you think, and you were never meant to do this alone. Bye for now.